jingjai, you said it ...

Before ending this thread, may I add something that seems to be missing.
Instead of looking for the components of an ideal partner, I need to look inward and realize that I also am not an ideal partner. I must strive to become such a person for my wife. I did marry a woman who has stayed by me in changes of fortunes, through illnesses, raised two fine children, and has high moral principals.

It took many years for me to realize my responsibility for in this marriage. I have been told that every morning I must pray for patience, tolerance, kindliness and love. I must pray for these because they are things that I need and do not have.

My wife is Issan and has a very limited formal education. Because we traveled extensively she has learned English but it is still a struggle for her. Once when I was having a biopsy done she told her friends I was having an autopsy. Our life is filled with compromises and that

Very well put Tom. My feelings exactly.

Yes there has been a change between the Thai and Lao. The Lao are looked at like Illegal Aleins are in the US now. Quite funny actually as most in this area immigrated from the Lao lands many years ago.

It is interesting that there are more Lao in Thailand than in Laos itself. Two good history books about Laos are: Grant Evans. A Short History of Laos. The Land in Between; and Martin Stuart-Fox. A History of Laos.

Centuries ago the Tai world was really fragmented, even more than now. But you did have a cultural world that spanned the north of Thailand, centred at Chiang Mai, and it included the Shan States of Burma, the Sip Song Panna region of Yunnan, China; Luang Phrabang in Laos, and the Tai Ahom region of Assam in India. Language, writing system, food, Buddhist forms and so on were very, very similar. They were separate from the Sukhothai/Ayutthaya cultural world.

Before Burma incorporated Chiang Mai into their empire, a Lao king sat on the Chiang Mai throne. Many words in northern Thai are similar to Lao words. And so on.

Laos probably would be part of Thailand now, except for some areas that would probably belong to Vietnam. However, France put an end to that. The French goal was to incorporate all of Laos and Thailand into their empire, but the British and astute diplomacy on the part of the Thai (Siamese) kings stopped that imperial dream of the French.

Somewhere near the end of the 19th century, the retreating Thais brought a lot of Lao into the Khorat plateau, and founded places like Udon Thani.

The natural kinship between Thailand and Laos was frowned upon by France, who produced textbooks linking Laos with Vietnam and Cambodia and downplaying the historic links between Ayutthaya, Sukhothai, Chiang Mai and Thonburi/Bangkok with Luang Phrabang, Vien Chan (the Lao pronunciation of the French word, Vientiane) and Champasak. By the way, the Lao kingdoms became closer to Thonburi/Bangkok when the Burmese armies were defeated and the north of Thailand, Luang Phrabang and Vien Chan were freed from Burman rule.

My Thai/Lao friends in Udon Thani tell me that Laos currently reminds them of Thailand in the 1950s, and is not much different that the Royal Lao governments led by Souvanna Phouma. Well, maybe not Souvanna Phouma, but the military leaders at that time.

Another good read is History of Thailand and Canbodia by M.L. Manish Jumsia. I found it at the lower book store in Robinson about a year ago. Does anyone know where these others books can be found? This is a region rich in history

Best advice I have read about relationships here or anywhere, look at yourself first.

We all have good aspects and bad about ourseleves. If we are focusing exclusivley on the other person, perhaps we are excercising one of our own bad behaviors. By the way that does include me.

If we have moved onto the Ethnicity of the Lao people, my Insight Guide gives lots of interesting information:-

The (approximately) half the total population who are ethnic Lao, known locally as Lao Lum, are closely related to the Lao speaking inhabitants of north-east Thailand, and slightly more distantly to the Thai people themselves. These are the people of the Mekong Vally lowlands who predominate in the provinces of Lunag Prabang, Ventiane, Tha Kaek, Savannakhet and Pakse.

The distinction between Lao and Thai is rather indistinct and something of a new (and politically motivated) phenomenon. Certainly the two groups are part of the same family, something both sides will happily accept - yet the Lao can be irritated by the rather arrogant and frequently stated Thai contention that the Lao are their "little brothers".

Of the remaining half of the population, an estimated 20% comprise Lao Tai groups, such as Tai Dam, Tai Daeng and Tai Khao, all ethnic Tai sub groups. All these groups are closely related to the Lao Lum, but live higher up in the hills and cultivate dry rice, as opposed to the irrigated rice paddy culture of the lowland Mekong valley.

Next there are the Lao Theung, or "approaching the top of the mountain Lao", a loose affiliation of mostly Mon-Khmer people who live halfway up the mountains. Formerly known to the ruling Lao Lum by the perjorative term 'kha', or slave, this group constitutes a further 15-20% of the population (and includes my GF - who originated from outside Luang Prabang and who tells me that the language also varies between these different groups). This group makes up by far the most economically disadvantaged section of Lao society.

Finally, on the distant mountain tops live, as might be expected - the Lao Sung, or "High Lao", people whose communities are at altitudes of more than 1000 metres above sea level.

In official terms the Lao Lum, and Lao Tai constitute 60% of the population, the Lao Theung a further 34% of the population, and the Lao Sung, the remainder. These three major groups, Lao Sung, Lum and Theung are depicted, from left to right, on the back of the Lao PDR 1000 kip bank note. (My GF is the short one on the right - Lao Theung! )

Given the considerable numbers of Vietnamese and Chinese in the country, the figures above must be considered applicable only to the "indigenous Lao people".

My GF, told me that when living in her village in Luang Prabang her family spoke Lao Theung most of the time, but after moving to Ventianes they took to speaking Lao Lum, as it was the predominant language there and because they found they were treated better/more favourably.

If my posting caused other to go off subject I am not sorry.

Thank you Tilokarat and ray23 for taking the time and effort for such informative postings.

Yes it has taken a new direction but one I'm enjoying very informative, maybe yuo guys could start a new thread this is good stuff.

Mainer wrote:Arjay, thanks, for the most needed topic here. I am sure most of us have these thoughts, either in the past or now. I know I do. I battle with it every day. I am returning to the US in a few days. Why? Because I do not have the answers to your questions. I need to find out for myself what I want and why I want it.

I've just been re-reading the earlier parts of this thread.

Mainer, assuming you are back in the States now, and still view the Forum, have you found any answers to the questions?

hitler was asked by one of his close friends,why do have this 18yr old dumb blond
as a girlriend how can you discuss inportant matters with her when she lays around all day sunbathing and and applying makeup ,his reply when i go home i dont want to discuss inportant things and matters of state i just want to be with a beutifull woman who makes me feel good.

PS the girl was eva braun she died with him,