I will suggest the answer to my question, before I pose it, which is:-

"It's not possible to answer this, as one's ideal partner is a mix of many various attributes, some more important to one individual than to another".

Those that know me, will be aware that I tend to over-analyse things, compartmentalise things, want them all clear and tidy and am something of a perfectionist.

That said, this is my question:-

Can you suggest the most important components in one's ideal partner, and ideally in order of priority.

What I am specifically getting at is how important is (and what priority do you place upon) the (sexual) chemistry between you and your ideal partner versus the knowledge and intellect and ability to discuss broader issues etc with her? ........ AND Val ( ) does that change when you become older?

The reason I ask, (what some may consider to be too personal a question - so don't feel obligated to answer if you don't want to ), is that the "chemistry" I have with my partner is the best I have ever experienced with any partner ever in my life (both in LOS and elsewhere), but overall I still feel frustrated that I am unable to hold an intelligent conversation (discuss or debate) with my partner about more general worldy or intellectual matters, due to her lack of education and knowledge of such things.

I have met other ladies including well educated and intelligent ones with a Univ degree, who I very much enjoyed the company of and particularly being able to talk in English about so many worldy topics. The down-side/trade-off however was the lack of physical or sexual chemistry with that/those particular individuals.

So the question again: How important do you rate the "chemistry" versus the intelligence and intellect of the individual in a relationship and does that change as you get older - i.e. when sex is on the agenda less often?

Maybe I should also add, this assumes that you are both compatible in all or most other respects.

IMO which people that know me may say is a little left field and impartial.

Remembering this is touchy subject I don't want to offend anyone. But what I actually say to my Falung friends here, is I believe about 80-90% of Thai/Falung relationships will failure within in 1-3 years because they may lack 1 or all of what I think are 3 important attributes to healthy lasting relationship
1. Trust
2. Good Clear Communication
3. Jealousy
And for therefore in my opinion Arjay for long term the chemistry comes down the ladder of importance

Whatever is fullfills you in the relationship ,hold on to,supplement the parts that are weak!
My wife studies English obsessively with the hope that our communication will be enhanced,but without a more worldly understanding,it is like talking to a child!Plus ,you can forget joking around,it is not understood!Therefore ,I seek conversation outside the relationship and encourage her to make ''friends'' to chat with!

Arjay... you have hit upon a subject for which I feel eminently qualified. I won't go into the number of relationships and/or marriages I've had but let's just say, Elizabeth Taylor is still trying to catch up. After only a short stay in Thailand (less than 3 years), I am currently happily married and thoroughly enjoying our relationship. We are completely compatible and although ours may not be the absolute best "chemistry" (as you so delicately stated) it is certainly at the very least, 2nd best. She has a university degree and a full-time, well paying job. She reads and writes English with aplomb but like the vast majority of Thais, she has a problem with pronounciation and speach which rather limits our 'in depth' conversations... WHO CARES, WE'RE HAPPY. And, that's the last line.

BKKSTAN wrote:My wife studies English obsessively with the hope that our communication will be enhanced, but without a more worldly understanding, it is like talking to a child! Plus, you can forget joking around, it is not understood!

Sounds familiar. And you're correct about humorous comments. It takes me so long to explain the joke that I learned quickly that I'm better off not ever uttering a word about it. LOL

May I say whatever brought a couple together should not stay static or decline over time. Relationships are like life always growing. Learning is a continous life long process, education is a life long process doesn not stop when you receive a diploma, buying cosmetics and clothes is a life long thrill, exercise is a life long joy, and on and on, the point is a couple that does not continually grow together does not have a happy future together only existence.

Existence gives you this

- finish school - stop that is the end of that
- start a business stop that is the end of that
- get married - stop that is the end of that
- having children - stop that is the end of that
- retire - stop that is the end of that

Whatever your goals are should be growing whatever brought a couple together should be growing, improving, expanding on.

And may I ask what does IMO mean, I see it so many times.
Thank you

IMO = In my opinion

also

IMHO = In my humble opinion

JMO = Just My Opinion

FWIW = For What It's Worth

Thank you

Arjay, what you laid out diligently hits too close to home. I've struggled with the same issue in the past. in my own experience, i've dated and had long term relationships with ___ of great ladies. i was fortunate to have met them all. some caucasion and asian/americans.i can say that in general i had great communications with most of them. however, i later realize that it's not enough. the chemistry was not strong enough to keep. when i'm with them i would imagine someone else that i believe can be better. i know that's very shallow of me, but i'm being honest. i know that i'm not perfect and that i'm not on the cover of GQ magazine. but that's how i was at the time. now that i met my current T G, i can admit that the chemistry is there but lack of a so called "great communication". she's attractive and her english is good enough considering she's been in the States only about 1 yr. she's pursuing a master's degree. even that, her pronunciation and grammar still needs some improvement. i'm not putting her down. my gosh, she's doing great considering her short time living here. i just want to make a point that we had many fights due to the fact that i would say something and she would misunderstand or vice versa. sometimes it gets very hard and puts a strain on our relationship. then i would think if maybe this is not working out. i start to rationalize that perhaps she's not compatible with me. i love to drink beer and enjoy listening to different kinds of rock bands. she on the other hand loves to shop (typical woman), and doesn't drink any type of alcohol. i'm not saying it's bad, we are just very different individuals. i'm older now and my outlook on life, my priorities changed dramatically. i no longer feel the need to compare to what i have now to what i imagine is "perfect". yes some days i feel that i may not have butterflies in my stomach when i kiss her, or i have to explain 5 times the funny jokes. she's a great person with the biggest heart and that she has to put up with me. i'm content now realizing that she will give me her last dollar, her last piece of bread, she would be next to me if i'm stripped with nothing. the bottom line is.... i know that no other girl in my past or future can ever be as good to me than her. i can definitely look at her be attracted to her and try my best to communicate with her.

sorry for the long post. blame it on the beers and soft music.

I'm glad this topic is opening up as it is. Thanks for everyone's views.

There's two further points I'd like to throw in.

1. I have a friend who (so he says), deliberately targetted and subsequently married a poor and uneducated single lady from Issan, who had a child and worked in a restaurant in Bangkok, because he says, he would never have to worry that she was being pursued by others or might run off with someone else. When I asked him about how could he have intelligent conversations with her, he said he had compromised on that aspect and did that by meeting up with other farangs and teachers. We were both teachers at that time.

I saw merit in his thinking and since my desired relationship with a Thai teacher (who was giving me the run around) did not proceed, I looked for someone whose heart was in the right place, so to speak, as my prime objective.

2. I have since found someone who says, and I believe, loves me dearly, and is without question loyal to me and whom I trust implicitly, as well as the chemistry being great - all things I value dearly. "What more could I want?" you might ask.

Yet, and I feel very guilty about saying this, yet at times I feel almost indifferent about her, frustrated, and, dare I say it, even annoyed that her knowledge is so poor and limited, coupled with all the many complications of her not being Thai, being from north of the the Mekong River, which in practice means that whilst she can speak thai, she cannot read or write it, doesn't understand many things about Thailand, has difficulties in being able to stay here in terms of visas etc., and of course everyone thinks she is Thai and expects her to understand these things and explain them to me. Neither of which she can do.

Yet, as I say I love and value that she clearly loves me and her loyalty is unquestionnable. As I am sure someone will ask, yes I love her, though perhaps not enough (I don't know), and think she is lovely, but would concede that my love for her would seem less strong than hers for me.

Maybe I am just shallow or just too selfish, or too much of a perfectionist, I don't know. What I tell you is what I feel.

I have sought to teach her English and about broader topics, but it is very hard and slow work, as the gulf at the outset was so wide. She never even knew the English alphabet, so could not read even the easist words, though we are past that now.

I in turn keep thinking surely there must be someone else out there with all her good points, plus a sound education and understanding of life and the rest of world the ability to articulate, though I doubt I could ever equal the chemistry!!

What is it that they say - "the grass is always greener on the other side".

My experience with Thai women has generally not been anything near as good as with my current Laos GF, apart from one I met by chance, who had a Degree education including English, had had contact with farangs through work, even worked briefly in Europe, could converse with knowldege and intelligence on so many subjects/things, and I believe wasn't out to rip anyone off, but simply to find a suitable partner who would love and take care of her and her child, with the most modest of financial needs (not demands). That's where the dilemna over chemistry came in. It would not compare to what I now have, though the rest of the package was more comprehensive.

So does this bring me back to a "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush", (and a good one in the hand at that).

Oh, and does the value of the excellent chemistry become less important when I am older??

Arjay. I,ve just come home from whats been an exhausting day so not able to give a concise answer to your question. I would initially want to clarify something. Do you think all us farang husbands are of superior intelligence to our wives then?You seem to imply that we are all starved for an intellectual conversation. What a laugh that is. You,ve been to a forum gathering where all the guys are chatting ten to the dozen. Early in the evening maybe there is a slight degree of intelligence in our talk, but oh boy, once those Tigers start going down, even my wife says " Your all mad"No , I go out to the meets for a bit of letting hair down, if I want intelligent conversation I stay home and talk to the TV
I think your question could have been put more briefly. Do you love me for my mind or my body?? A serious answer will be forthcoming tomorrow, if I can think of one.

I think it all goes back to one thing: No one is perfect.

Enough love for another breeds tolerance to overcome shortcomings. It is probably safe to say that if one cannot overlook those shortcomings, the love and acceptance isn't strong enough to sustain a long term relationship.

On the other hand, I always look at myself when I start thinking that the grass may be greener somewhere else. What does she have to tolerate with me?

Arjay, thanks, for the most needed topic here. I am sure most of us have these thoughts, either in the past or now. I know I do. I battle with it every day. I am returning to the US in a few days. Why? Because I do not have the answers to your questions. I need to find out for myself what I want and why I want it.

I have been in Thailand this stretch for 20 months. My other trip was 6 months, and I couldn't wait to get back to Udon. On arrival, I was going 'six ways to Sunday' trying to get all I could to satisfy 'my needs'. I say that because I think in this short time, I think my needs have changed and maybe almost a 180 turn. The animal needs, for ME is not the answer.

What I thought was of importance to me then, is not so important anymore. It is like I have no one here to talk to, even when she is here. Anyone understand what I am saying? How many hours a day can someone look at the face of a cell phone? What is so intriguing about it? No video there... no game playing. HMMM Don't get me wrong, because she is good to me. But why is that so important? Maybe because we expect it from what we had heard from the LOS.

Enough about me. Arjay, from what I hear you say, it sounds like you have a very nice girl with you. She is trying hard to learn for you. But I also hear that you think she may not be enough. That made me feel a bit sad. But only you know what you want at any moment. It can and will change as time goes on. I am fairly convinced we should not 'settle' for second best, because that is what she will always be. But I have found that I have done that in the past and regretted it.

For myself, I tend to jump into a relationship too fast and get into a live-in situation. We all know that can be easy here. Then I feel stuck. Maybe better to date a person for a long time and if I think she can be the one, date some more. Show her genuine love. (notice I have not talked about chemistry). If there were not some attraction, I wouldn't be dating her. But physical attraction, in my opinion, is not the whole answer by anyone's imagination.

Back at home, I go to dances, a lot. For exercise and for my social needs. There is a married couple there that is in there 50's, I would guess. When these two dance in a waltz, there faces are about 2 inches from one another. There eyes NEVER stray from the others. There is the most intense look in their faces. Like this could be the last dance.

I wished I had what they have. Communication? Nothing spoken, but YES much communication. Much love. You betcha ! I am sure they see the chemistry also, but in a different way than I think I need it.

I hope you can understand my ramblings. I got a lot out it, regardless..

Val, point taken that not all us farangs are superior in intelligence to our partners!

Ricohoc, I think you may have summed up the key point most succinctly in your second (middle) paragraph:

Ricohoc wrote:Enough love for another breeds tolerance to overcome shortcomings. It is probably safe to say that if one cannot overlook those shortcomings, the love and acceptance isn't strong enough to sustain a long term relationship.

You are quite possibly right, perhaps my love is not sufficiently strong enough to generate enough tolerance to overcome what I see as her shortcomings, despite the fact that I realise that I would really struggle to find a better replacement in a great many respects. And not forgetting that I too have many of my own shortcomings!!

My worry is that in this constant pursuit of perfection I doubt I would ever find what I am really looking for - i.e. the 100% total package, and if I did would I have enough life left in me by then to take capitalise on it.

It can take me, on average, 3 years to find a really good one, and everyone has/will have their shortcomings, not least myself. So even if (and that's a very big IF) I found the perfect one in say 5 years time, would she want me, would I be worthy of her, or indeed have sufficient faculties(?) left?

I remind myself of the manufacturer's slogan, along the lines of: "in the pursuit of continuous improvement, we reserve the right to change the specification or update the model at any time in the future"!!

Mainer, yes she is a good girl and I don't want to hurt her. If we did split up I would happily support her and her daughter financially, long into the future.

I understand what you mean about not settling for second best, but can one be sure of ever finding "first best"? Realistically we all compromise on so many things, is it just that I must learn to compromise here?

I too jump into relationships too fast, though feel that you can't really evaluate each other fully unless you live together. I feel you can't really get too know someone from a distance so to speak unless you spend time living with them. I wasted a year of my life trying to do that with a Thai teacher in Phuket! (She lived with family and kept me sufficiently at arms length that I never really knew what she was doing, with whom or where).

I have tried to test my feelings when we have been apart, sometimes for as long as 4 weeks, and regret to say that whilst I did think of her, I found I didn't miss her as much as I thought I should have!! In Thailand it is easy to find people to talk to and places to go and things to do, though I didn't like having no one to talk to at home or sleeping alone! That suggested to me that whilst I wanted companionship, my love for her wasn't strong enough to prove she was the "one and only" for me.

So back to the big question, - "should I be happy with what I have and learn to compromise"? Or have I been pre-programmed without that feature, i.e. is that not in my nature, and am I therefore doomed to continue searching the galaxy (where no man has gone before ) in my unsatisfiable hunt for or pursuit of non-existent perfection!?