Following the success of Danger Signs as a Forum Topic, I thought you might be interested in this snippet from the Thai media. There is a monk, For obvious reasons, I won't say where, that specialises in treating ladies in a certain manner so their man can never leave them.He will have desire only for them, forsaking all others.This monk is quite famous for this treatment, which he carries out in premises removed from the monastry and the subsequent revelation said he treated at least 20 patients a week. He is held in high esteem by his disciples who swear to its effectiveness.The whole thing came to light when police received reports of a woman sceaming, investigated and after a forced entry, discovered the monk and the girl naked on the floor and she was screaming from the pain of having piecings in her private parts. The background to this.She was a mia noi whose man had stopped calling round and had been told that the monk could make him come back and never leave her again.It never said whether it worked or not. The monk was arrested but not charged, apparently the needles were the only thing he had inserted and the woman refused to press any other charge. He was however disrobed and evicted from the temple.
Now I can only think that some farangs have been the subject of this or a similar guys administrations judging by the way they let some girls walk all over them. Head in the sand, when all around know whats going on.
What do you think?

Val, I have clicked "Yes" but it does depend what you mean by 'love', a bit.
Is it possible to make someone totally dependant on you? The answer has to be Yes, as is often seen in Western society by a partner (usually male, but not always) who is physically or emotionally abusive to the other, yet they refuse to leave them.
Is it possible for someone to completely control you? The answer has to be Yes. I have seen witch doctors make people seriously ill - just by telling them that they would.

Like Bob has said, more clarification need for the 'love' thing.

I also ticked yes, but hesitantly I hasten to add..

This is a fascinating question, especially in our family. Here's a woman's perspective...

My half-Thai stepson chose to marry the Thai daughter of long-time family friends, with his mother taking care of the negotiations -- not exactly a blind, arranged marriage but certainly not a passionate "love match" or one in which he knows what to expect on a daily basis. However, looking at them from the vantagepoint of middle age, we have high hopes when we see how well they complement each other's strengths and balance each other's foibles in so many ways.

On the other hand, his father and I reunited earlier this year after having secretly fallen in love with each other as next-door neighbors at the ages of 17 and 13 (in those years, too large an age gap). College and a low draft number foiled our first attempt at a formal relationship, with his sibsequently ending up in Thailand and me in the UK, each of us marrying, raising a family, divorcing (in my case, divorcing again) and becoming increasingly depressed and dissatisfied with the lack of love in our lives. Throughout it all, we never forgot each other nor the fire between us. Several attempts at contact over the years finally resulted in the right timing, and we made the decision to marry within days of meeting again.

So in two such different relationships, what are the elements of "love"? I submit that one should consider the physical, the intellectual, the emotional and the spiritual. If we're lucky, we find a solid relationship with two out of the four -- a physical attraction coupled with emotional warmth and caring (or a mentally stimulating partner who enjoys many of the same interests). Sometimes (rarely), we meet that person who meshes with us in all ways, the person we feel was our destiny, and the relationship moves to a spiritual plane.

There are so many levels and facets of love, and the physical can so easily overshadow any other. Is it any less "love" if it all doesn't happen quickly but rather grows more complex over time? Is it realistic to expect that more than a small number of couples are "destined" for each other? Great if it happens (thank you, Lord) -- but rare.

Hey, I don't have the answers -- I'm just making this up as I go along.

I submit that one should consider the physical, the intellectual, the emotional and the spiritual. If we're lucky, we find a solid relationship with two out of the four -- a physical attraction coupled with emotional warmth and caring (or a mentally stimulating partner who enjoys many of the same interests). Sometimes (rarely), we meet that person who meshes with us in all ways, the person we feel was our destiny, and the relationship moves to a spiritual plane.

There are so many levels and facets of love, and the physical can so easily overshadow any other. Is it any less "love" if it all doesn't happen quickly but rather grows more complex over time? Is it realistic to expect that more than a small number of couples are "destined" for each other? Great if it happens (thank you, Lord) -- but rare.

Gulf Coast USA, Great Posting. Very perceptive and profound. And as you say a woman's perspective.

People often say, "well do you love her?" And I do, but in what way and to what level? I love people easily, and as you say there are so many different aspects to love and a relationship. Is it possible to achieve perfection in all aspects? Is there that perfect person out there waiting for you, somewhere? I doubt it. Or at least, even if there is, one would spend the whole of one's life searching, but never finding. So I feel there has to be a compromise with some aspects. It is something of a balancing act.

I relish having an intellectual relationship as well as a physical one, but find in Thailand, that is much more difficult to achieve. I did think I had found the right person previously on an intellectual plane, but then I don't think her heart was really fully there and maybe because of that, the chemistry was not as strong as I felt it should have been.

I have found someone now, who I think loves me very much, is totally loyal and with whom the chemistry is the best ever, but I have had to compromise on the intellectual aspects.

Yes, I love her, in virtually all the aspects referred to above, (because she is pretty, affectionate, loyal, gentle, polite, caring and loving, - all the things that are important to me) but, I can't discuss the political situation in "wherever" with her, and she doesn't know who people like Tony Blair and George Bush are. And that in some ways to me is frustrating. But I don't think I am ever realistically likely to find "perfection", in all respects, and certainly not in what's left of my lifetime. So I compromise with myself in that respect.

arjay wrote: I can't discuss the political situation in "wherever" with her, and she doesn't know who people like Tony Blair and George Bush are. And that in some ways to me is frustrating. But I don't think I am ever realistically likely to find "perfection", in all respects, and certainly not in what's left of my lifetime. So I compromise with myself in that respect.

Although Waen is like this, i.e. doesn't know who GB or TB is that does not mean she is not intelligent. Uneducated yes, unintelligent, definately no. I even comment ot her quite regularly as to how smart she is. I find her quite intelligent, it's just that even if she knew who they were it wouldn't make the slightest change in her life so she doesn't care.

As for making someone love you, I have to say definatley yes as I made Waen love me. Well, I didn't make her love me but I never gave her that chance to not once I fell in love with her. She could have said no, she could have told me to stop calling her but she never did and I feel like I never gave her the chance. We first met in a CD store and I just had to talk to her. She spoke a bit of english, I a bit of Thai and we just hit it off from the start. I fell in love with her within the first two weeks of us meeting. Before someone says it, this was not my first trip to Thailand and I did not fall in love with the first girl I met. I had been coming to Thailand for years doing work for the Thai Navy in Sattahip and knew what happens to some guys on their first trip. Waen was different, at least to me. She wasn't out looking for a falang and we even sometimes discuss that when we met neither of us were looking for a mate. I tell her that I did not come to Thailand to find a wife and she tells me that she wasn't looking for a husband ans all the problems tha usually come along with a relationship. Seems that we just couldn't help ourselves once we met. We almost did not go past that initial meeting. When I left she had given me her phone mobile number and e-mail address and I had told her my email address but not written it down for her. The email address that she had given me (99999999@yahoo.com) did not work as she had gotten it and used it only a few times and did not understand that if you didn't keep using these free email acounts that they quit working. I tried to email her and that bombed out. I tried calling her but having never called a Thai mobile I couldn't get that to work. Then one day I got an email from her at a hotmail acount. She had gone to the internet shop beside of Mr. Tongs, go tsomeone to help her get a hotmail acount and then remembered my email address (I said that she was intelligent). After that I never gave her the chance to say no. Here we are now, a few years later, very much in love and making plans for the rest of our lives together (yeah, remember me and that brick wall I have to build starting in a few weeks)

Wansman, what sounds good to me and re-assuring, about what you say, is how you met your GF and how neither of you was particularly looking for the other at that time. That would give me a lot of re-assurance, if I met someone under those circumstances. And the fact that you nearly lost contact afterwards. You certainly know you weren't being targetted!

Rj

I voted no from a Western perspective,but then thought that love is different things in different cultures and so i would erase that vote if i could.As i think Valentine said in a thread,once you learn to speak Thai,then you know what the wives of the farang really think about the husband/boyfriend.A lot of the time it is not a Western concept of love.

Wansman, what interests me in your story is the instant nature of your interest when you saw Waen. Again, often it's the physical that draws us to someone, and we discover (or build) the rest later. Even though I was 12 years old when I saw my now-husband for the first time, I can describe exactly where he was standing and what he was wearing. I don't think we can dismiss the power of that physical chemistry.

Another good point you make is the difference between "educated" and "intelligent." My husband's Thai ex is very smart but is not educated nor intellectual. Even if she were educated, she would not be an intellectual. However, she runs a very successful business. Intelligent comes in many forms -- you can find someone who'll go to the theater and museums with you, or talk politics and current events with you, or who has the wherewithal to organize and run a household or business or (in my husband's case) someone who managed the household and family while he was on overseas military assignments for long stretches.

gulfcoastUSA wrote:Wansman, what interests me in your story is the instant nature of your interest when you saw Waen. Again, often it's the physical that draws us to someone, and we discover (or build) the rest later. Even though I was 12 years old when I saw my now-husband for the first time, I can describe exactly where he was standing and what he was wearing. I don't think we can dismiss the power of that physical chemistry.

Although others may not find her as attractive as I do, I think that Waen is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen. And, like you, I can remember the first time I saw her, the first time that she looked at me, I can still see those big beautiful black eyes looking at me. I can still remember her smell the first time that she let me get close enough to smell her. She says she remembers the first time we met just as I do.

gulfcoastUSA wrote:Another good point you make is the difference between "educated" and "intelligent." My husband's Thai ex is very smart but is not educated nor intellectual. Even if she were educated, she would not be an intellectual. However, she runs a very successful business. Intelligent comes in many forms -- you can find someone who'll go to the theater and museums with you, or talk politics and current events with you, or who has the wherewithal to organize and run a household or business or (in my husband's case) someone who managed the household and family while he was on overseas military assignments for long stretches.

Once I brought a National Geographic world map to show her where I lived. She couldn't have cared less about the map as that made no difference to her life and I don't think that she could at this moment show you where Thailand is on one. But, at the same time I was not at all surprised when I told her about something that MAY happen and she asked me for the percentage of that happening. Waen is uneducated but is quite intelligent. The first thing that she wants to do when she gets here is to go to school to learn to read and write english. The second thing she wants to do is to learn to drive a car. The third thing is for us to move back to Thailand as soon as we can.

arjay wrote:You certainly know you weren't being targetted!

Rj

Well that adds a little to the mix...

I was targetted. Absolutely certainly and she admits it. My wife was previously married and her (Thai) husband was a Jekyll and Hyde, super bloke by the day and then went out drinking, came home and scared the life out of her with anger and (almost) violence. As a result she hates Thai men. from a marriage perspective....its not reasonable in my view, because of an unfortunate sample of one, but this is her view. And I only know, and want to know, part of the story.

She saw some friends happily married with Farang, and when we met, she used every trick in the book to snag me in (I knew it then, and its just a joke now) and succeeded! Sort of on topic I guess. And I am certainly no "special" catch..

Does she want money..no...she wants security, in all respects. Thailand has no social net apart from family, friends and spouse ...and that goes way beyond money. All the "warnings" ring very true to me, and should be considered very seriously if you come here looking for love or whatever rings your bell (I did not, it was a business trip and I tried to get out of it)...it happens all the time, but its too easy to be cynical.

John