Disbelief at Thai terror centre denial (ninemsn.com)

Saturday Nov 5 15:03 AEST

Thailand's official denial that it is housing a secret interrogation centre where al-Qaeda and other terrorist suspects are being held incommunicado has been met with open disbelief.

Suspicion has fallen on a remote Voice of America relay station near the north-eastern Thai city of Udon Thani, and rumours - all so far unconfirmed - abound that it has been used as a front for "black" or "secret" operations.

The government has dismissed the rumours as baseless.

The Thai PM's Office spokesman, Suranand Vejjajiva, insisted no such prison existed at the station and says everyone he has spoken to, including the Udon Thani governor, the VOA station manager and the US embassy, have assured him nothing out of the ordinary was going on.

He said the facility requires plenty of space to operate because of the large transmitters used for powerful broadcasts around the world.

Reporters and curious observers flocked to the remote and securely-fenced VOA radio station in Ban Dung district, about 160km from the Thai-Laos border on a huge plot of land and has aroused suspicion in the past.

It is guarded around the clock by 15 security employees, but the only visible signs of life are a garage and a storage shack with no sign of any sleeping quarters.

About a dozen staff members at the station live in a nearby town and commute to work every day, according to one security guard interviewed by reporters.

Udon Thani Governor Jaruek Prinyapol said a senior official who was ordered to inspect the station denied it contained a secret prison.

An editorial in one of Thailand's two English-language daily newspapers, the Nation, described as "disturbing" claims in the Washington Post that Thailand is one of several countries used to interrogate suspected international terrorists.

The Nation says that, despite the fact that Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has categorically rejected the Post report, there remain lingering doubts.

This week Thaksin made explicit reference to the 2003 arrest of Riduan Isamuddin, also known as Hambali - the man believed to have masterminded the Balinese bombings which killed and injured hundreds of people - including Australians - in October 2003.

Hambali, said to have been the al-Qaeda point man in Asia, was arrested by Thai and CIA operatives in the ancient Thai capital city of Ayutthaya, and has since been handed over to US authorities and is being held in US custody at a secret location.

In its editorial the Nation points to the fact that White House spokesman Scott McClellan has refused to confirm or deny that Thailand and seven other countries operate secret interrogation facilities.

The Thai newspaper adds: "If the Post account is to be believed, the CIA has run the covert prison system for almost four years, as part of the US war on terrorism in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks."

It said Thailand and the US had been close allies and partners in the US-led war on terror, which has involved, among other things, intelligence sharing and the extradition of known international terrorists.

"But any cooperative arrangement that involves covert operations by foreign agents on Thai territory must be avoided," it warned.

Thailand, "with its own shabby record of brutal treatment of Muslim detainees", would do well to avoid associating itself too closely with the US, especially in regard to the treatment of prisoners, the paper added.

I was reading that the radio station is on 3200 rai of land.Just a little more than one would need for a hut and a transmitter.

businessman wrote:I was reading that the radio station is on 3200 rai of land.Just a little more than one would need for a hut and a transmitter.

Anyone no how long that station has existed ?

I don't really know but I will take a guess and say it is a leftover from the Vietnam era. Did they need a lot of room to avoid sabotage to the facilities, could be. I know from talking to friends that served here during the war there were sappers right here in Udon. Udon was a major support unit for the war we did not get involved in Laos. There is a lot of local recent history that we think very little about I would love to read it. Anybody seen any english history written about Thailand really a very interesting country just hard to find the information.

Oh I guess I could get back to the topic sorry old age kicking in.

I doubt very serioulsy if there is a secret prison, at the VOA compound.

If I were going to create something secret, I would not put it in such a well known place. Are there places unknown to the public where interogations are taking place probably. Would they be in a prison as we know prisons I doubt it to many ways for leaks to happen and it will no longer be a secret

Think about all that security at the VOA, more then likey Thai personnel, don't you think thye would go home and talk about work. With the Thai need for recognition of prestige, if anything that exciting was going on out there it would be all over the community.

The last transfer that I remember for the VOA, very CIA stuff ,how about Delano California, man life can not get any more boring.

Do I believe our governments are playing fair, I hope not. If they are we are destined to change religions. You can not win against terrorist warfare, if you don't get your hands dirty. How I wish this didn't exist but it does. That is way to much about a serious subject so I will shutup now and enjoy my retirement.

Anyone no how long that station has existed?

It was built in 1994 at a cost of $200 million, to reach points throughout south-East Asia, China and Korea.

I know from talking to friends that served here during the war there were sappers right here in Udon. Udon was a major support unit for the war we did not get involved in Laos.

what not sure about

sappers

but we all know who "Air America" is Hmm,

Voice of America

has a similar ring to it.

did not get involved in Laos

I guess after rereading many times, "this is tongue-in-cheek"

You can not win against terrorist warfare, if you don't get your hands dirty.

Hmm, does not seem to be working, and I don't think it will work for Thailand either

businessman wrote:I was reading that the radio station is on 3200 rai of land.Just a little more than one would need for a hut and a transmitter.

The "hut" is the size of a large warehouse.

The "transmitter" is actually seven transmitters, each capable of radiating 750kW peak power on shortwave frequencies.

The large amount of land is required for the antenna farm - each antenna is over 100ft tall (IAFAIK) and several hundred ft long. And there are many.

A bit more than a ham radio shack don't you think?

ray23 wrote:Anyone no how long that station has existed ?

Built in the late 80s/early 90s. Commissioned 1993. In service 1994.

ray23 wrote:Did they need a lot of room to avoid sabotage to the facilities, could be.

Yes. But security is for other reasons as well: personal safety (this is a high power broadcast station - lots of high voltage and high power radio energy); theft prevention (lots of copper in radio installations); service integrity (VOA probably resell broadcast airtime - interruption to service = loss of revenue.)

Dakoda wrote:

I know from talking to friends that served here during the war there were sappers right here in Udon. Udon was a major support unit for the war we did not get involved in Laos.

what not sure about

sappers

but we all know who "Air America" is Hmm,

Voice of America

has a similar ring to it.

did not get involved in Laos

I guess after rereading many times, "this is tongue-in-cheek"

You can not win against terrorist warfare, if you don't get your hands dirty.

Hmm, does not seem to be working, and I don't think it will work for Thailand either

I had just finished reading a book written about the air observers stationed in Laos and a you probbly recall America didn't admit it was involved in Laos for many years. They were supported through the Udon Air Base, medical pay Ect. They were actually based in Laos. I wish I could remeber the name of the book really a good read for those of us who live here now, but age has kicked in and I can't remember.

Sappers I was told this by the guys who were stationed here during the war, I wasn't stationed here.

Are the current tactics working how would we know, none of us know at this juncture what has been prevented only the things that were not prevented. The only ones who could really gage that are the guys planning the activities and the guys who have stopped planned activity. I would assume nby the nature of the beast, explaining how thing were stopped would only give more fuel to the other side.

I still don't believe that the VOA would be a good site for the activities that are being described. Just to much of a chance for a leakof information. But that is just my humble thoughts

Would the new location be close to what was Ramasan Station during the Vietnam era? Just curious, since Ramadan had a covert history...

Stephen was in Army Intelligence attached to Ramasan, which had massive communications equipment for capturing/monitoring Chinese, Russian, Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian broadcasts, which were then translated by a large contingent of language specialists on site from the Department of Defense Language School at Monterey, California.

The communications equipment was shaped like an elephant's back and so was called the "Elephant Cage." It was entirely separate from the Udon US Air Force facilities and was not "acknowledged" by the US government. Air America was operating out of its airfield and limped home several times, and the Army handled drops into Laos for the Marines.

Dakoda wrote:

I know from talking to friends that served here during the war there were sappers right here in Udon. Udon was a major support unit for the war we did not get involved in Laos.

what not sure about

sappers

but we all know who "Air America" is Hmm,

Voice of America

has a similar ring to it.

Sapper attacks did occur at Udorn RTAFB in July 1968 and late summer of 1972. I worked as a defense contractor in communications and was on a job in Korat during the first attack but was working a midnight shift during the second occurrence. Our large Stratcom site would have made more sense as a target but the small forces of sappers, both times, were going after planes on the flightline. The sappers had bomb filled satchels and damage done was minimal. I believe that the security guys did capture at least one North Vietnamese sapper. Our USAF contact, NCMO, called us during the second attack and our Thai guards were put on highest alert. Our pack of soi dogs that we kept on site were as calm as usual that night so we were probably in no danger at all. As Ray's friends probably could say also, details have faded and we CRS anymore about this ancient history. The attacks were reported in the Bangkok Post but doubt that their archives go back 30-40 years ago.

ray23 wrote:

Dakoda wrote:

I know from talking to friends that served here during the war there were sappers right here in Udon. Udon was a major support unit for the war we did not get involved in Laos.

what not sure about

sappers

but we all know who "Air America" is Hmm,

Voice of America

has a similar ring to it.

did not get involved in Laos

I guess after rereading many times, "this is tongue-in-cheek"

You can not win against terrorist warfare, if you don't get your hands dirty.

Hmm, does not seem to be working, and I don't think it will work for Thailand either

I had just finished reading a book written about the air observers stationed in Laos and a you probbly recall America didn't admit it was involved in Laos for many years. They were supported through the Udon Air Base, medical pay Ect. They were actually based in Laos. I wish I could remeber the name of the book really a good read for those of us who live here now, but age has kicked in and I can't remember.

Sappers I was told this by the guys who were stationed here during the war, I wasn't stationed here.

Are the current tactics working how would we know, none of us know at this juncture what has been prevented only the things that were not prevented. The only ones who could really gage that are the guys planning the activities and the guys who have stopped planned activity. I would assume nby the nature of the beast, explaining how thing were stopped would only give more fuel to the other side.

I still don't believe that the VOA would be a good site for the activities that are being described. Just to much of a chance for a leakof information. But that is just my humble thoughts

Sounds like The Ravens by Christopher Robins, who also wrote Air America. Backfire & Shoot the Moon by Roger Warner are also about the "secret war" in Laos. Been trying to get my hands on the last two for sometime.

Yep that is the one you ever find the other two let me know if there is more then one copy I would like to get them myself. Never read Air America, but if it was anything like the Ravens, it would be a good read.

I found out about the Ravens from a Vet who worked in Bangkok during the war in supply and a a supply guy and the true methods of finding things in the military had met several of the raven Pilots. If you live in this area definetly a good read.

As for sappers, was not there in 68 but was there for the second. Worked in the tank farm and unloading sight for rail cars for the base(this will make sense in a bit). The sapper came on base in 72 and for unknown reasons went into an empty revetment and blew himself up. Had planes on both sides and he picked an empty one. Makes one wonder.

Now for a bit more intrigue, how did he get that far anyway. I will admit security was at best loose, but he had to have had a bit of help.

Second if their purpose was to shut down operations from the airfield, why not hit the tank farm. For a bit of insight, the tank farm was located next to the primiter fence with the tanks next to the fence. Across from the fence was a public road around about 3/4ths of the fence. When I say road most of it was soi. Across the soi were rent houses and such. So easy to launch an attack. We talked about it always. By the way I think this was in our favor as we only had Thais to guard the perimiter. Think they knew what was going on and kept it that way.

Third, all jet fuel came in by(Well 99.9%)came in by rail. The unloading point was in Nong Kwan Quan. It was about a mile from the base. Worked out there quite a bit, as it was Thai employees and myself. That was it. No guards, no Police, nothing. The area was open and we constantly had to watch for Khup walking around smoking. I am not the most sharpest cookie in the pack but could figure an attack on the train unloading depot would most likely have shut down or crippled the effect of an Air Force base.

Do I think maybe the Thais were playing both sides of the fence< don't know. I will say they knew what was going on. I have no proof either way so will let it drop.