from stickmans subs

Help In Finding Good Girls In Thailand
By Christoph A.

My company sent me to Bangkok to work on the Thai Farmers Bank account (now Kassikornbank) around mid 1994. I was a young IT engineer and credit risk specialist, a mere 2 years after graduation. I worked for a major European consulting company and this engagement was a welcome life enhancing experience. I lived in Bangkok on and off until 2003, having spent nearly half of the total time in Thailand during this period.

I hardly visited Patpong, NEP, or Soi Cowboy before 2000, the exceptions have been mostly times when I entertained other foreign colleagues and visitors to Bangkok. During this time, in my late twenties and early thirties, I partied pretty hard, pulling student girls from RCA, Phuture and MoS, freelancing office girls from Hyatt Erawan and CM2, hostesses from the Piano Bar, or simply friends, friends of friends, friends of colleagues and so on. Later on, I also started frequenting the bars of NEP, Nana Disco, and paid occasional visits to Patpong with fellow Bangkok expatriates and foreign residents.

In 2002 I met my wife. Jin was a student at the English MBA program at the Chulalongkorn University (the best and oldest university in Thailand many would say). Jin’s family is originally from Chiang Mai, but her mother lectures at a university in Udon Thani while her father manages a food processing plant in Hat Yai. We moved permanently to Austria in 2003 mostly because of my work, and have been living in Vienna happily ever since. It shall be said that while Vienna is not a super hip place or a melting pot of nationalities, it offers a comfortable life and a surprisingly large Asian community where my wife has found many friends. We also travel to Thailand at least 2 times each year.

Why am I saying all this? I have traveled Thailand from south to north and back many times and befriended many Thai girls. What never ceases to amaze me, is how many really and truly good girls are out there and how hard it is for these girls to find good men, while, at the same time, there are hundreds of supposedly good hearted and honest foreign men whining about being scammed and diced by a bad Thai girl. The truth is perhaps in the old saying: “Why a good guy never marries a good girl? None of them will ask first!” Well, this certainly does not cover the whole truth.

The vast majority of foreigners tend to go the easy way; meeting and marrying bar girls, women from the very low strata of Thai society. Too much has been written about the upbringing and cultural habits of these girls, let me just say that thinking that you can build a meaningful relationship (in the western sense) with those girls is pure fantasy. There is very little you can share with those girls as nothing can be further apart than the life of a rice farmer's daughter in Issan making a living in a Pattaya bar, and a middle aged middle class divorcee from Sussex. Bar girls are in the business of dating farang men and all relationships must be seen in a pure business sense. Just as you are perhaps trying to get maximum pay for minimum effort on your job, shirking and playing little tricks on your boss sometimes to get some extra bonuses, these girls apply the same approach on you. The mentality of the lower class Thai girls is at the level of 8 year old western kids, interested only in the things of today - fun, friends, and money. The concept of “development”, be it relationship, career, skills, and lifestyle is totally strange to them. English language skills and the few tricks that make you believe they truly love you and share this special bond are taught on the job by their older sisters. They do not need you to escape their current life; they need your money to continue their current life.

The girls from the opposite end of Thai society, the hi-so’s, can be a good dating and marriage material if you are young and rich. They are familiar with culture and habits of the west, mix with foreigners naturally and enjoy western lifestyle. Lifestyle, they can rarely secure for themselves, and are therefore often being taken care of by their parents, later boyfriends, husbands and lovers. You can have good conversations on many topics with them, they are open and fun (also sexually), but they expect to be showered with expensive gifts, condos, cars and jewelry.

The remaining group is the Thai middle class. You hardly meet these girls, working in offices, hospitals, shops, schools and universities. They do not speak English as well as the hi-so girls or not as loud as the bar girls. They do not frequent the farang areas as they feel intimidated there and mostly can not afford it. They normally do not drink and do not smoke and are shy to speak to strangers. Yes, English is the main issue, the lack of opportunities to use the foreign language in their everyday life, the cost, and the slim chances of finding a foreign partner curbs the motivation and endurance needed to master English. Yet perhaps surprisingly, this is the group of women I see best suited for marrying farang men. Why? They are genuinely interested in bettering their life, they are willing to work hard for that, study foreign language, endure some discomfort of living in a far away part of the world, or take a regular job to earn their own living. They are interested in learning about your culture and habits and willing to adopt them. They are faithful and sincere.

How can you meet them? The safest and most accepted way is being introduced through friends. These girls can be met if you leave the tourist areas of Thailand. It just takes a little effort, some patience, good manners and a willingness to try. Yes, they venture into the tourist areas sometimes as well, but distinguishing them from the scamming pack is not easy and your “my girl is different” claim is mostly false.

I have discussed this many times with my wife. She suggests we move back to Thailand and set up an internet dating and matchmaking agency. She claims, and I can confirm that, she can find hundreds of sincere and genuine Thai girls for marriage and long term relationship with foreign men. She claims this is one of the few possibilities for good girls to meet a good man and she herself got registered, together with her friends, with a few of those marriage agencies before we met. I have set up and run several businesses in the past and have a good experience building internet based ventures including community portals, with integrated VoIP, instant messaging, video chat functions, payment options. I would like to ask fellow readers about their opinions, perhaps their experience with such services and what they think about the whole idea.

Ch.



Stickman's thoughts:

I agree with everything you say. I do however think that there is already a surplus of matchmaking agencies so creating a new one and turning it into a commercial successful story may be harder than you think.
The author can be contacted at : christoph.audry@baldpapa.de.

izzix wrote:

from stickmans subs

Help In Finding Good Girls In Thailand
By Christoph A.

The vast majority of foreigners tend to go the easy way; meeting and marrying bar girls, women from the very low strata of Thai society. Too much has been written about the upbringing and cultural habits of these girls, let me just say that thinking that you can build a meaningful relationship (in the western sense) with those girls is pure fantasy. There is very little you can share with those girls as nothing can be further apart than the life of a rice farmer's daughter in Issan making a living in a Pattaya bar, and a middle aged middle class divorcee from Sussex. Bar girls are in the business of dating farang men and all relationships must be seen in a pure business sense. Just as you are perhaps trying to get maximum pay for minimum effort on your job, shirking and playing little tricks on your boss sometimes to get some extra bonuses, these girls apply the same approach on you. The mentality of the lower class Thai girls is at the level of 8 year old western kids, interested only in the things of today - fun, friends, and money. The concept of “development”, be it relationship, career, skills, and lifestyle is totally strange to them. English language skills and the few tricks that make you believe they truly love you and share this special bond are taught on the job by their older sisters. They do not need you to escape their current life; they need your money to continue their current life.

Galee wrote:

izzix wrote:

from stickmans subs

Help In Finding Good Girls In Thailand
By Christoph A.

The vast majority of foreigners tend to go the easy way; meeting and marrying bar girls, women from the very low strata of Thai society. Too much has been written about the upbringing and cultural habits of these girls, let me just say that thinking that you can build a meaningful relationship (in the western sense) with those girls is pure fantasy. There is very little you can share with those girls as nothing can be further apart than the life of a rice farmer's daughter in Issan making a living in a Pattaya bar, and a middle aged middle class divorcee from Sussex. Bar girls are in the business of dating farang men and all relationships must be seen in a pure business sense. Just as you are perhaps trying to get maximum pay for minimum effort on your job, shirking and playing little tricks on your boss sometimes to get some extra bonuses, these girls apply the same approach on you. The mentality of the lower class Thai girls is at the level of 8 year old western kids, interested only in the things of today - fun, friends, and money. The concept of “development”, be it relationship, career, skills, and lifestyle is totally strange to them. English language skills and the few tricks that make you believe they truly love you and share this special bond are taught on the job by their older sisters. They do not need you to escape their current life; they need your money to continue their current life.

Hey I object to being stereo typed. Never met this guy but he'll be meeting my lawyer.

From Good To Bad
Anonymous

As I lie down on the white sand beach of Ko Chang and start to write this, I have no idea what the theme or purpose of this journal is. Is this an article to explain to others my experiences and journey, is it to warn or simply is it an exercise to cleanse and start afresh? I have a feeling it is a combination of all of the above.

I am alone although my most recent Thai girlfriend should be here with me but she has departed, once again living up to my expectations of Thai women. You see, this is becoming a common occurrence and maybe the real reason to write this down is to find an explanation for the repetition. Why is it that I consistently go through the same thing time and time again? Australian boy meets Thai girl and they date. Thai girl then lies and cheats and they break up.

I am a 35 year old educated Australian banker, single, with no children. I am 5 feet 7 inches, average looking but in very good physical condition from years of sport and gym. I feel I am quite worldly having lived in Europe for 6 months and other parts of Australia for another 6 months. I have had two long term Australian girlfriends whom I lived with for a total of around 6 years. Both were very honest and I never had reason to question either of them. However, when I went to Thailand for the first time 4 years ago, I was totally blown away by the country, the people, the islands, the motorbikes and how sexy the Thai women were. I did my research prior to visiting Thailand but nothing could have prepared me for the amazing time I had.

But now, 5 trips later, I have to ask the question, is the Thailand dream over for me? Everything is becoming more expensive, the pollution and traffic jams in Bangkok are getting worse but most of all, even the "good" Thai girls are turning "bad". The "good' Thai girl seems to be a bit of a myth because when I watch TV or hear friends speak or meet other guys in Thailand, they seem to think that every girl in Thailand is a prostitute and that you have to pay for sex here. It makes me laugh when I hear this as there are many nice and innocent girls that I have come across in my travels. They can be met at a number of places such as dating websites, nightclubs, shops, department stores or just on the street. I have no trouble walking up to any girl on the street and saying "hi" in Thailand because I know that nine times out of ten, I will get a warm response. For some reason, I find it much harder to do in Australia. These girls all have full time jobs or are at university, seem to have a decent family upbringing and never ask for any money. Some have even paid for our hotel accommodation and their own airfares when travelling to the islands with me.

I do not do the whole bar girl thing as I think the whole concept is quite sad. Yes, I have been to have a look and play connect four but watching a 60 year old man with two 18 year old girls on each leg is a sickening sight and not something I want to be a part of. However, I am starting to see that these "good" girls are starting to develop more of the same characteristics as the "bad bar girl" I see and read about. It is becoming harder and harder to differentiate between the two visually. The lies are starting to sound the same, the two mobile phones, the high heels, the fake designer handbag, and I "miss you teerak" are all crossing over from "good" to "bad" girls. The tattoos are now also appearing and I am starting to question if all of the girls are becoming "mai dee" (not good).

Take Mart for example, a university educated Thai working in a travel agency. When I first met her 3 years back, she was strikingly beautiful. We spent a few days together and had a good time and she was the first Thai girl that I ever had any feelings for. Now I see her 3 years later and she is parading around in her high heels and skimpy clothes with the standard dragon tattoo on the shoulder and another tattoo on her lower back (bulls eye). She now has a real manipulative side to her and the transformation from "good' to "bad" is complete. Does she now ask for money now for sex? I am not sure but it would not surprise me.

But the real theme that I am starting to notice is the lies. The lies are becoming more creative. If their weapon is the lie then the ammunition is to deny, deny. Let me introduce Belle who is a university educated 23 year old working in a hotel in Sukhumvit. I met her on the internet and we chatted for 6 months and met up when I was in Thailand. After going out and having a good time we go back to her condominium and straight away she jumps on the phone and calls her fiancé / boyfriend. She had told me about this 55 year old Englishmen before who spends much of his time working in the UK but manages to fund her lifestyle, including allowing her to live in his condo. When they were on the phone, I was kissing her neck and he was questioning if she was alone. She kept denying and saying "You crazy" or "Crazy you" which I now know really means "Yes, you are right, I am lying". I guess most guys would have been happy with the free sex. I on the other hand was amazed at how calculating and believable the lies were. She was so believable that I started to doubt all the things she had ever told me and knew she could not be trusted and any further involvement would lead to trouble. The next morning I saw her sending an SMS from under the bed sheets and asked her what she was doing. She said nothing and that her phone was in the other room. Unlucky for her but her phone rang at that exact moment, from under her pillow! Even then, she denied sending the SMS even though I saw her do it. If the UK boyfriend knew what I knew, he would have seen her go from "good" to "bad" and this one, being as calculating as she is, will only get worse.

Take the story of Khim. I also met her online on a site called ThailandFriends and we became friends. I came to Thailand by myself and had some free time so I contacted her. Her English was poor but I liked her innocence and wanted to learn more about her. She lived and worked in Rayong as an account manager for a company that made parts for cars and due to the language barrier, communicating was difficult. But we met up one day (she brought her friend along) and I took her sightseeing and we had a fun day. Romance was never an option with her as she was very reserved, shy and almost scared when I held her hand. I took her home and she said I could not come in as only females were allowed in the building.

When I came back to Australia we stayed in touch and she told me she had never had a boyfriend or even kissed a guy and was a virgin. Now, I know what you are thinking but based on what I had seen first hand and how delicate this girl was, I totally believed her. Months went by and even though we had not been romantically involved she told me she loved me. I thought it was a little crazy and told her that she couldn't but I guess this was her first "relationship" with a male and that's what it felt like to her. Potentially, this is the Thai wifey that I had heard about. She was willing to do anything for me the next time we met up and deleted her internet profile and said she was focusing on me alone. Therefore, when I found another profile of hers on another website, I must admit I was shocked. I confronted her and she lied about it but in her defence, she did end up admitting to it and was ashamed about what she had done. Unlike many of my other girls, we are still friends to this day and I do like her. However, the fact that a girl this sweet and innocent who is telling me she loves me could also be trying to meet other guys online made me really stop and wonder if any of these Thai girls could be trusted. In terms of "good", this was the best of the good girls I had met, yet she still managed to turn "bad".

Another example is my most recent girlfriend Fon. She is 23 and has just started to work as an accountant after completing university. I flew her out to meet me in Bali a few months back for the first time (we met online) and we got along well. Recently her stories for not answering her phone started to sound familiar like "I am visiting a sick uncle in hospital" or "My battery was dead". Now these could be very valid reasons but my experience has shown me that they are often cover-ups. However, I gave her the benefit of the doubt and arrived in Thailand (a few days back) and met all of her work colleagues one day when we went bowling. Then a friend of mine noticed a profile of hers on another dating website. It was clearly her with same nose, mouth, sunglasses, hair, age, location, height, etc. When I confronted her on this it was the usual deny deny and "You crazy", which as I said before really means "You are right, I am lying". I couldn't believe that after all the time and effort I had put in with this girl over the last 9 months that she was looking for other guys and lying to my face about what I meant to her. And to top it off, even though the evidence was overwhelming, I got the same deny, deny. If she had admitted to this, maybe we could have got past it but when a girl lies, deceives and then so blatantly denies the obvious, it was clear that I was never going to be able to trust her again. She really disappointed me as she was someone I put a lot of faith in and cared for. After I broke up with her she tried to put it all back on me and that I was the bad one and I started to see a real nasty side that I had never come close to seeing before. It was an incredible transformation from "good" girl to evil, lying, hurtful "bad" girl in a matter of minutes.

Being as disillusioned as I was, I went out that night determined to meet a new Thai girl, one that I could trust. Was she really out there? My mate had planned a big night so we went to Khao San Road for a few drinks with our friend Pla who works in a hotel in the area. She has a French boyfriend who supports her financially. I have never seen her with another guy and she seems to remain faithful to him but I have a suspicion that she would leave him if a better offer came along. Anyway, after a few drinks I met a girl called Neung. She told me she worked as a travel agent in the Pratunam area. She does not call me by my name but rather "Brave man" which describes how I walked over to her in the bar and introduced myself. I like this and think she is cute.

We end up back at my hotel and after a crazy night of fun (no charge) we plan to meet up again to see a movie that night. After the movie we meet my friend for dinner and I decide at 11:00 PM to go to bed as I was tired and had to get a bus to Ko Chang at 8:00 AM the next day. I send the two of them out as they were keen for a drink and she said she would be on her best behaviour and wanted to see me when I came back from Ko Chang. I generally believed her and the next morning I received a wake up phone call from her at 7:30 AM to make sure I was up and would not miss my bus. She told me she missed me and could not wait to see me when I came back to Bangkok. I thought it was very sweet of her but within 30 minutes I had met my friend who told me he slept with her last night! Firstly, I was shocked he had done this but not surprised and secondly, I was amazed at what a lying two faced girl this was. How could she possibly think I would not find out? Was she really that stupid? After exchanging a few SMS and confronting her, I got the predictable lies and deny, deny and how dare I ask her this. She was ringing my mate, trying to get the story straight and he was sitting right next to me, allowing me to listen to the whole conversation. It was the most insane situation she could ever deny, but she still lied and denied everything with such a sense of purpose, I almost respected her in some crazy way.

This situation really hit home hard and although I did not care for her, I was stunned to think there are girls in Thailand that think they can actually get away with this kind of behaviour by having sex with two best mates in 24 hours without one of them finding out. Neung didn't want money so what was it she was looking for?

I could give many more examples of Thai girls I met earlier where I spent days or weeks with in Thailand or other countries and countless months speaking online when I got home, only to have them lie to me about the other guys they were either seeing to trying to see. I had one girl named Tack from Phi Phi organise a passport while I hooked up her 2 week visa to come and visit me in Australia only to find out she really got her passport so she could visit her other boyfriend in France. Another girl, Lina from Bangkok, was working as a personal assistant to a company director was pregnant and married within 4 months of our week holiday to Phuket. The stories I have are countless and they all end the same way, with lies from the Thai woman for some reason or another.

It was at this stage that I started to ask myself if my expectations were too high. What was it that I actually wanted? Did I want a girl I could hang out with for a few weeks, twice a year on an overseas holiday or did I want more? Was I looking for a wife? Should I not worry about what the Thai girls were doing when I was not around and just treat the time spent as a bit of fun? Should I not try and get emotionally involved with any of them? Why is it that I am not interested in Caucasian girls anymore, even though my experience with them in general has been good? Why aren't I looking for something closer to home? What is it about the appearance of a certain Thai woman that attracts me to them so much? I guess that deep down I was looking for a beautiful Thai girl I could trust, have a great time with and get to know better and learn more about. The problem I encountered is that due to all the lies, the trust was never there and we were never able to get to the next level.

But what is it that they were looking for? None of the girls mentioned ever wanted any quick cash in any of my examples. Yes, I met girls that did but they were quickly disposed of and not pursued and those types of girls are not being discussed here. Sure, some of my "good" girls got a cheap holiday and some free dinners but as I said earlier, many also paid their own way. Was it a holiday, was it fun, was it sex, was it a visa they wanted? Some of them got a taste of the good life for the first time so maybe they got greedy and wanted more? Maybe they got a better deal elsewhere but in most cases, I think not as all of the girls were treated very well. Obviously, each case is different and the girls should not be categorised.

So where do I go from here? I do not have any bad feeling towards any of my experiences and I have enjoyed all of the girls at some point. However, I now know that to have a long distance relationship with a Thai girl is pointless as the trust can never be there. I love spending time with these girls and having fun but at the end of the day, if the trust is not there, that's all it should be, a bit of fun with no expectations. Experience has shown me that even the "good" Thai girls turn "bad" at some point. Maybe it is a cultural thing where all the girls lie, as it is something that I have not really experienced back home. Maybe my friend of a friend who has been to Thailand 20 times and not even left the Nana area was right when he said "You will never meet a good girl in Thailand". At the time I was determined to prove him wrong and show him my way of meeting "good" girls was better than his way of meeting "bad" girls. However, in the end, it looks as though he was right. No matter what, the Thailand "good" girl dream is officially over.



Stickman's thoughts:

Running this site, reading all the submissions and all of the emails from guys that I do not have permission to publish I can very much relate to how you feel. I think one loses a certain amount of pride or self-esteem if you consistently find yourself spending time around or amongst people with these manipulative traits.

That said, I wonder if a common element with these girls was that most (all?) were either met online or in tourist areas. It sounds as though many of the women you met were not really good girls at all, but rather "good time girls".

Khao San Road and tourist areas are generally not the places to meet the best that Thailand has to offer.

Great submission!
The author can be contacted by sending an email to Stickman who will forward it to the author.

anonymous dude wrote:I went out that night determined to meet a new Thai girl, one that I could trust

anonymous dude wrote:My mate had planned a big night so we went to Khao San Road for a few drinks

anonymous dude wrote:Anyway, after a few drinks I met a girl called Neung. She told me she worked as a travel agent in the Pratunam area

anonymous dude wrote:We end up back at my hotel and after a crazy night of fun (no charge)

anonymous dude wrote:After the movie we meet my friend for dinner and I decide at 11:00 PM to go to bed as I was tired..... I send the two of them out as they were keen for a drink and she said she would be on her best behaviour

anonymous dude wrote:I met my friend who told me he slept with her last night!

izzix wrote:however theres more than a few office gals that are no better than BGs , i have tried a few and found that out from experience.

izzix wrote:however theres more than a few office gals that are no better than BGs , i have tried a few and found that out from experience.

tamada wrote:OK izz, based on that claim, why don't you write up your 'it happened to me' stories in classic stickmanesque style, post here and see if we really (give a sh!t) can tell the difference. OK?