Many Thai's and farrangs have Mia Noi's,

Is it about the sex?

Is it about status?

Is it about seeking comfort they don't get at home?

I have often said that it isn't fair to compare a Noi to the the first wife, why the Mia Noi isn't strapped with the duties of running and taking care of the family or household.

But is there a peace and excitement that has left the real marriage and men then seek this, through the mnior wife. My beliefs are that it can supply an aspect that you no longer get in your primary marriage. But I also believe if you make the minor wife the first wife through devoirce that aspect will hange in that relationship as well.

I have came to the conclusion that it is not about sex. If it were it is much less complicated to avial ones self, of the many avenues, that are less expensive and bothersome avialble here. So I have to think the drive comes from somewhere else. First me I think it would be much to complicated to have a girldfriend on the side or a Mia Noi.

But on the other hand I do miss the excitment of having someone really trying to keep me happy. Now for me this something that has disappeared in my marriage, save me the counceling been there got the Tee Shirt read the books applied them. Have now tried talking begging cajooling and threatening, folks its gone and that's that. So it hit me maybe this is why these guys have the minor wifes not difficult to get here.

The wife is still the best friend I have here, so I have no intent to leave. But the honeymoon is definetly over

Thats a shame Ray . been married three times and done the friendship thing as well and at end of the day think I missed in all of them what I have found in thailand and that is the care and desire to please , so on a darker note have to ask you how long did the desire to please last. What have I got of this bliss , one year ,two years?

I know Thais like "sanook", and don't like to be too serious. They tend to live more for today than we do, whereas we like to think about and plan for the future.

I think I mucked up one previous relationship by being too serious about things, and cross examining things too much. In the end it lost the carefree spontanaiety that she wanted (as a fairly young Thai person) and she had second thoughts and baled out.

aj wrote:Thats a shame Ray . been married three times and done the friendship thing as well and at end of the day think I missed in all of them what I have found in thailand and that is the care and desire to please , so on a darker note have to ask you how long did the desire to please last. What have I got of this bliss , one year ,two years?

We are beyond the three year mark, the change seem to come when we bought the house, it was like I have arrived now I can kick back. Since we are making payments on it ( intentionally) that far from being true house payments require enough income to make them. But that reality may not have hit home yet. It's been funny seem like the further I withdraw the nicer she becomes. Makes kindof wonder if honesty is really possibleo, but allof seem to get better treatment, go figure.

Now let me tell you guys something my wife is about as good as it's going to get, no money problems no family games none the gold trips never has been. Just not real giving in other ways. Might be because she has never seen a truly fintunal relationship, father killed her mother of a Mia noi when she was small, so raised be what family would take her. But I haven' noticed that Thia women that I have seen in relationship once they are married are particularly affectionate. But that is not the kind of thing you see in public most times.

You know the one thing that I am finding out is once yuo apply western thinking to anything in Thailand your probably headed fror frustration.

The next thing I keep asking myself is can one person fufill my desires, to tell the truth I don't think so. thats a big nut to crack.

So here I am coming to Thailand to fufill as much as posible my dreams, applying my western logic to a Thai realtionship and finding I'm not a happy as I would like to be.

So maybe it's time to forget all that and approach it the same way as a Thai man. That is a big jump, tht I'm not at all sure I am comfortable with.
So I think in a nut shell it would come under the heading of having my cake and eating it to. It's posible here, but what a balancing act not to ruin what you already have. Dangerous territory.

Ray, if you're thinking what I'm thinking that you're thinking, you'd need to be very careful and maybe do your "research" some distance away from here.

Oh if I do choose to do the research it won't be in Udon and that is a big IF!!!!!!!!

I think you have to accept your own responsiblities in something like this, it's not just her. But on the other had you can not change the basic person they will never be happy with that. Therefore that is only going to make the existing relationship worse.

Maybe a simple weekend away sometimes would do miracles who knows, but never here I respect and care to much about her to embarass her. I'm just doing my normal dreaming, trying to figure out the ultimate. I can tell you one thing she does care enough not to want any other ladies involved

I think we're back to WHY people marry, and that the primary values that are satisfied by marriage are different for Thais and falangs. If care, loving gestures, and passion (sexual and otherwise) are a long-term falang value, it may take more work to bridge that gap.

The honeymoon period eventually wanes in both cultures. I wonder whether that happens sooner in a Thai-falang marriage?

That is a good question a many posters have stated love has very little to do with it. It is normally a far as I can tell about security, certainly a factor in a Western marriage. But I'm not sure it is here.

I'm sure that in many cases, love does have little to do with it, (in Thai-Farang relationships/marriages). I think their prime concerns are financial security, then stability, for example they don't want a "jowshoo" - "butterfly". If they actually love you, it is a bonus.

That was put to me here many years ago, by a "long term" farang, who commented that if they love you, it's a bonus, and in my experience that has seemed to be the case.

I've got one currently, who although she has many shortcomings, I am almost certain loves me and I value her greatly because of that.

You know you can love someone but that alone will not make a healthy realtionship.

Relationhips are a lot of hard work even when you come from the same background even more so when you don't and a do not have a common language is a problem, on top of that.

My problem with the wife is she just hits a comfort level and is not willing to go beyond it. Example she speaks no more englsih then she did 2 & 1/2 years ago, that is no big deal around the house we have our own language there. But when you bring in outside factors, it becomes a huge problem, as for my Thai it takes much more then hello and how are you to conduct business. I will continue with Thai lessons but the fact of life as a retired cop and shooting in practise for many years ha left me tone deff, already had problem wiht that wwhne I was a kid, I was the only one not allowed to be the glee club, so it is as it is. I will never learn Thai correctly simply because I can't hear correctly. But I will continue and do the best I can.

The money is here for her to go to class she won't do it unless I take her and sit and wait for her, which bring up the next one. She owns a new Chevy Pickup and a new honda dream and she now has her drivers license after several bribes, simply because she wouldn't put forth effort to pass the exam after sixty hours of paid for drivers instruction. All of this and she refuses to drive outside the village. You know enough is enough. I made it very possible for her to be mobile so that she can do things on her own without me babysitting her. But she just won't try. Nor will she help me with my Thai.

This alone causes huge problems we had a trial shedlued for next month I gave a prime witness a date for the trial and she blocked out the time given. The wife aor the attoeney gave me the wrong date. So I call and tell the witness the date agian only to find out it was off by one year in he appointment book and she can't make it. I really have no idea what is going on with the water because no one can tell me. A simple massage a I am pain everyday, she won't do it simple as that.

When I say something about these kind of things she just gets angry and it only leads to more problems. So I'm at a impass I don't know how to solicit more effort on her part , without causing world war three. I have made sure has the time to improve in these areas she has a housekeeper and has time.

Outside people have spoken to her not because I said anything but because they can see the problem and want her to have good life not me.

Me I have hit that point where I will no longer appoligize for taking someone out of the rice fields, working for food and making them a frigging millionaire. We are each repsonsible for what we do with the opportunities we are giving in life.

Nowwhen it comes to finance I doubt that I will ever find her equal, she ha never bothered me about money. I make sure she has all that she needs and more and she runs the household budget. I did not want her coming to me for 500 baht to buy a blouse, so if she handles the money well she has it. The house is clean, she now cooks well for the foods I like. I enjoy our activities together such bike riding and bolwing that is not wher the problem lies. The problem would take so little to overcome, but she just does not put the efort together to them. This leads to frustration for me and when I say somehtihng about we are into a fight. Because I yell, that is very true but only after addressing the problem many many time is nice ways with no results.

These things effect my qaulity of life directly, I have sufficient money that these things that happen shouldn't real be a issue if we could only communicate. I'm used to finding solutions to problems not letting continue to fester and creat moer problems. Now the bottom line is this is truly effecting the relationship between her and I and I have done as much as I can, it can not be done with only my effort. Love is a wonderful thing but it can be destroyed.

So here I sit thinking about Mia Nois something I really don't want to get involved in. Why because maybe I can get a massage when I'm in pain, speak at a better level of understanding, get some advice when i need it.

I would much rather go to her for these things as a person I trust. I don't expect her to know about new things we run into business, but to be able to communicate to me what is happening so I can make decesions. These things are not a lot to ask, but she will not move above her comfort zone and the result is I'm not even close to being in mine.

I will continue to work on the language thats my responsility, but it is not mine alone. There are two of us here and we both need to learn. Along with new found wealth comes responsibility

Very comprehensive Ray and I can well sympathise, though not provide a solution.

I recognise several of the points you mention. To be fair they are often on a different level to us, in terms of education, knowledge, awareness of wider issues etc, and as you say they tend to prefer to stick to their level and not want to learn or develop.

Mine has several limitations, primarily due to her not being Thai and thus not being able to read or write Thai. When we go somewhere, people explain things to her in the expectation that she will convey the information to me. Firstly, I doubt that she understands all of what is being explained to her, and secondly there is little prospect of her being able to explain that to me, or should I say, me being able to understand her Thai when she tries to convey it to me!

Not being able to ride a m/bike or drive a car, she is much too dependent on me and I feel boxed in, because I have to take her everywhere to do anything and everything, like shopping, paying bills etc.

Incidentally, I am sure it was you who was referred to in some village gossip that she was on the receiving end of recently. - Along the lines of there's an American guy in First Homes who gives his wife xxxx baht pm. It was the same figure that you had previously mentioned that your wife had a budget of.

I explained to my GF that it wasn't that you gave your wife that much each month, (for herself), that is was that you and your wife had that much money to manage each month, and that out of that your wife paid all the bills, like rent/mortgage, electric, water, telephone, food, shopping car repayments etc. So that took the pressure of me, in that respect, but it illustrates quite well how and where all this information gets bandied about and how it isn't always as it seems.

Back to the main theme, if one was to look for a wife/GF of a higher educational level, besides being very difficult to find, my main worry is that often the scams and things that some of them get up to, are likely to be that much more sophisticated and subtle/devious and thus even more difficult to detect or determine, and potentially even more costly.

Oh heck I should be a shoe in for a Mia Noi, they can only count what comes in not what goes out LOL

Ok one more peice of the puzzle, I remebered a Maususe advertised on here at 300 baht an hour for an oil massage, Made the wife call her and she is on the way. Now I told sweetpea that since she won't do it, she is to schedule me three a week and she pays for it out of her budget.

It isn't what she doesn't know that bothers me it's her refusal to learn.

So lets see 900 a week four weeks a month 3600 baht from her budget, thats a lot of blouses Bye Bye, up to her.

Don't tell the girls in the village about that, might really mess up how attractive I look at this juncture

Ahh, the accuracy of Thai gossip. I've heard some good stuff about myself. Some was so bizarre when someone mentioned to me, I was sure they were talking about someone else. I've had at least three nationalities.

Forget about learning Thai from the wife. I don't think most want us to become too fluent. Also, if your wife is like mine, she really lacks the educational background in Thai language to explain grammar and pronounciation details. Thais aren't big on admitting they don't know something. Lot more to teaching a language than just being a native speaker. My wife is also short on the patience and repetition required to teach me.

Ray, sometimes you have to drag them kicking and screaming to try new things. It is more art than science. Push her to try but not too hard. For whatever reason, they have a big fear of failure or lack of confidence from being told they are dumb issan peasant who will never do anything right since they were children.

Was she all excited to go bowling the first time? Now she is one of the best bowlers in town.

My wife's mother can't even drive a motorcycle and her father won't drive in town. Afraid. ****, I was afraid too the first time I drove a motorcycle in Udon. I didn't know how to drive a motorcycle at all. I did it anyway and now it is easy. Farangs will jump right in. Sink or swim. Thais seem to need to inch a little closer. Can't dump them into something far outside their comfort zone. They will shutdown or run.

Maybe try letting her drive outside town first on a back country road. Or, find someone to go with her like a Thai female friend. A peer she trusts.

She might feel she is protecting you by not bringing problems to your attention. Avoid the issue and it will go away mentality seems common.

My wife also took time to adjust to her new station in the social order. She is not the teenage village girl from 15 years ago when last living in Udon. For example, she had tremendous trouble saying no to Thai men in business situations. It took time for her to get comfortable being "the boss".

If I had a nickel for everytime my wife said "No, I can't...", "It's too hard...", "I don't need to...".

ray23 wrote:Ok one more peice of the puzzle, I remebered a Maususe advertised on here at 300 baht an hour for an oil massage, Made the wife call her and she is on the way. Now I told sweetpea that since she won't do it, she is to schedule me three a week and she pays for it out of her budget.

It isn't what she doesn't know that bothers me it's her refusal to learn.

So lets see 900 a week four weeks a month 3600 baht from her budget, thats a lot of blouses Bye Bye, up to her.

Don't tell the girls in the village about that, might really mess up how attractive I look at this juncture

Now you've done it! Massage = sex in her brain. After about 200 tries, I got my wife into a traditional massage place to prove this isn't true. She now believes me 50%.