Pension Fund Performance - lost value

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Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Ricky » March 4, 2009, 3:05 pm

Extract from main article, courtesy of Daily Telegraph:-
Expert advice for pension trustees
There are going to be some difficult meetings for pension trustees this spring - it is likely they will have to review some dreadful performance numbers.
By John Redwood
Last Updated: 11:44AM GMT 24 Feb 2009

Many pension funds will have lost more than a fifth of their value and some as much as a third, depending on how heavily invested they have been in equities and property. A £10m fund may be down £2.5m, and a £100m fund may have lost more than £20m.

The Trustees will have to decide what to do, and how to tell the members the bad news. Members and trustees will be angry or upset that despite all the advice the funds are paying for they can end up in such a bind.

The Actuaries will point out how there is now a bigger hole in the pension fund. They may permit themselves the luxury of explaining that over the last year, (uncharacteristically), if the fund had been more fully invested in government bonds it would have done a lot better. Unfortunately, you cannot be sure of paying rising pensions which go up with increased life spans and with wage inflation, out of fixed income bonds.

Full article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... stees.html
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Ricky » March 4, 2009, 3:09 pm

Very worrying if one is approaching retirement within the next few months or even years!! :?
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: BobHelm » March 4, 2009, 3:23 pm

One of my pension providers always sends me a yearly 'news letter' concerning its performance.... Just a couple of "highlights" from the 2009 version...

Some schemes that were previously in surplus have now moved to deficit
i.e. don't have enough money to pay out future liabilities. :(

The schemes value fell from 1,868million to 1,803million at end of March 2008. By December 2008 the value has fallen to 1,530million and the scheme has now moved into deficit


Plus, 'early retirement' has now been increased to 55 (from 50) except in the case of ill health.
The Final Salary Scheme (that I am on) has been discontinued to new employees from January 2009 & will be discontinued for existing employees as well from 2014.

All in all it did not make for happy reading....
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Aardvark » March 4, 2009, 3:36 pm

Dont worry too much, the Merchants of doom and gloom come out of the wood work at times like these :shock: just remember that those who control the wealth of this world will only lose so much before they fight back and turn things around, after all you cant get blood from a stone 8)
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Ricky » March 4, 2009, 3:43 pm

Well as I've retired already, I can't see that I should be affected, unless my actual pension payer goes bankrupt. Though the parent company pretty much has, and has been taken over. My understanding is that pensions nowadays are kept separate and in effect ring-fenced. I hope. :?

It must be a very big concern for those hoping to retire very shortly. :cry:
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: BobHelm » March 4, 2009, 3:47 pm

Yes agree RJ, not actually a worry for me either - except they have normally given an annual rise over & above inflation (which is all they are committed to) so I guess I can kiss the extra goodbye for a couple of years!!!
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: westerby » March 4, 2009, 4:12 pm

arjay wrote:My understanding is that pensions nowadays are kept separate and in effect ring-fenced. I hope. :?


Remember the Maxwells and the raiding of Daily Mirror pensions? Was that loophole ever closed?

I feel sorry for people who have saved for years and worked hard just to see their UK pension fund shrink because it's not been managed properly (and that's what it amounts to). There must be a better method of organising private pensions for working people. This issue of UK pensions not paying what people expected is not new, it's about time some form of effective regulation was put in place.

Edit: Have you ever noticed how us Brits put a load of organisations, regulations and laws in place but they never seem to work? The FSA for example. I'm tired of hearing public servants saying, ' we have learnt the lessons and have put new regulations and processes in place to ensure this situation never happens again'. It never works.
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Ricky » March 4, 2009, 4:29 pm

Yes, re your Edit, I noticed that HBOS previously sacked the chap in charge of Risk Management, because he pointed out they were taking too much risk!

I also read something about the CEO of HBOS being a close friend of the head or deputy head of the FSA, and so it goes on!

If they appoint specialists to do a job, then they should let him get on and do it, AND listen to what he reports! :roll: It appears to me that too many of these "regulatory bodies, only pay lip service to what they were set up to do.

Though that's all really another topic.
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: BobHelm » March 4, 2009, 4:33 pm

The Maxwell thing cannot happen again westerby and UK pensions are 'ring fenced' as RJ suggests.
My fund is very well run and has representatives from the current employees, pensioners & the company on its board. They take the best advice that is available. For example since 1999 they have moved from an investment holding of 75% in Equities and reduced this to 45% by 2006 & increased their bond holdings from 15% to 45% over the same time.
The equities value has shrunk by 27% in the last year, while the bonds value has increased by nearly 7%.
Why didn't they put it all into bonds one might ask??? Well, with hind sight, that would have been an excellent thing to do. However, traditionally, the bonds market is a slow moving one with a small growth to match. Equities, before the financial crisis, have been the way of growing pension funds and seen as a safe investment.
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: westerby » March 4, 2009, 4:43 pm

I take what you're saying, Bob. However, there are people on BBC News this morning whose pensions will suffer because the fund managers invested too heavily in the stock market. One chap's pension has shrunk by three-quarters since the current economic issues so his fund will not realise as much when he retires this year. Maybe the slow moving Bond is the answer rather than speculating on the stock market. Pensions funds must be solid and secure or the Government will have to bear the financial burden in the future.
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Ricky » March 4, 2009, 4:47 pm

Did you spot that the mighty and reputable Standard Life, had invested a proportion of it's ultra cautious Managed Pension Cash Fund, in toxic debts? This is the fund they recommend you invest in a year or two before you actually take your pension in order to consolidate gains and protect your lifetime's pension investment from stock market falls!! #-o A cash fund which their literature leads you to believe cannot fall!! #-o [-X

I read that they are now having to explain to pension investors why they have had to mark down the value of the fund!! [-X [-X [-X

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... -debt.html

I think apologise and compensate investors would be more appropriate! :roll:
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Ricky » March 4, 2009, 4:50 pm

Westerby, I would think they mean his pension fund value has fallen, which yes if he were to take (buy) his pension now or in the near future, would mean he would get less.
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: Ricky » March 4, 2009, 5:00 pm

I've just checked again, and it looks like Standard Life have bowed to pressure and done the honourable thing. :D

Well done to them! =D> =D>

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/pers ... ation.html
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: westerby » March 4, 2009, 5:48 pm

arjay wrote:Westerby, I would think they mean his pension fund value has fallen, which yes if he were to take (buy) his pension now or in the near future, would mean he would get less.


Yes, that's what old Westers was trying to say. Not a good idea for engineers to talk about pension funds is it. Rather like pop stars talking about world peace.
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Re: Pension Fund Performance - lost value

PostAuthor: laphanphon » March 4, 2009, 6:28 pm

ok, you all should be/should have been, for the last couple years as liquid as you can be. zero, zip, not even bonds. and stay that way for at least the next 5 yrs. ERHE.OB, whatever you can afford to lose, i recommend that. recommended 2 months or so ago, floating in between .11 - .15 cents, excellent buy in price, hit .32 yesterday, came down to .30 today. would of been a 100 % er. and it still has a long way to go, IMHO.

whatever they teach, or say how to invest is WRONG, IT DOESN'T AND HAS NEVER WORKED. except for that rare internet/tech farce bull market a decade ago, surprise, that crashed. what ever your broker recommends, do the opposite, never had good advice from the broker. show up at the office at closing time, and watch them drive away in a car less expensive than yours............and you take advice from this person.

ok, lesson over. GOD bless and happy trading. 8)
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