That all sounds pretty steep/demanding to me, particularly as her educational background does not extend beyond high school to college or university and also the nature of the family's living.

It would be interesting to know, whether she just relayed this information on to you, or whether she sought to negotiate or reduce things on your behalf. It may also depend on how rich they think you are, or you have allowed them to believe you are, or even how much someone along the road paid, plus the fact you are a farang. I would also be interested to know how it was presented to you. The way you put it, it sounded very cold and straight!

You would also need to consider how strongly you both feel about each other. If there is a will there's a way. Try suggesting, that may be possible if she is happy to wait 2 years to get married, and see if they back down!

IMHO the sin sot sounds more than twice what it ought to be. I wouldn't pay that much. The Reception costs should be borne by the family out of the sin sot. That has been the case in the several situations I came across.

One particular personal experience, involved a Thai teacher with a degree education, and the family wanted 100K, plus 2 baht of gold, though no buffaloes, - no money to come back, but they would pay for the party/reception. The daughter was upset, because they had previously told her that they would return part of the sin sot. Her older sister had married a Thai the year before and the sin sot had been 60K.

Most people I know, including my current GF say the family takes care of the party/reception out of the sin sot.

You could always say that if you pay that much you won't have any money left to take care of her, or buy her a house in due course, or better still you will have to defer the wedding 2 years, while you strive to save the required money. That should test them.

I do know of one guy who bought a buffalo.

Hmmm Charley. This just does not seem "normal" IMHO. I don't want to sound hard, but they sound (you know them better I presume) like a grasping bunch who want to profit from their daughters "lucky strike" with a farang.

If this is how they present themselves pre-marriage, you might want to consider what the future might hold.

In my own personal case, but I know of several others (one to be married in Udon very shortly), I was told that I did not need to do any of this if I did not want to. I chose to play along, because its the tradition, and it does show to the wider family and friends that their daughter is valued. I asked whether I would get it back, and was told (and they looked a bit surprised) yes!!!!. Just quietly.... it was back in my bank the next day.

This is the "normal" situation, as far as you can call anything normal where different people and families are concerned.

Ohhh...and she is university educated, a teacher (high status in Thailand) and a Certified Accountant.

If they had demanded a price and wanted to keep it, I would have told them to sod off!!! (Thats the polite version) and then asked the intended whether she wanted to go ahead anyway. That would sort out whether she loved me or money.

Fortunately that situation never arose. They will and have already, and its part of the normal way the family works, get some help monetarily or practically in the future if they have problems, in the same way that they have used their ways (not necessarily money) to solve my problems or concerns.

Sorry, thats not too constructive is it.... but as Arjay says, this sounds very cold and almost calculating (excuse the pun)

Why is it that whenever I read this thread I get a feeling of impending doom?

I have recently been told of a relationship that ended due to girlfriends parents insisting on a ridiculous Sin Sod. What do you do if the two of you are head over heels in love, but are having this wedge put between the two of you?. Do you pay up or do you stick to your principles.

My personal situation is that whenever/if this problem arises in the future I will pay what I can afford and what I think is appropriate. If they insist on looking at the short term gain instead of the long term security, then that will be their loss.

Gary

I've run into the price escalation of Sin Sods also in the village of my GF of two years....(i.e. and going slow because of it).

Finnish fellow of 60+ cheerfully paid 1 million baht in January/06 for his 20 year old bride. GF and mother brought this to my attention.....I did point out that the rule of thumb I've seen is half is paid back and I'm not 60+. To their credit GF agreed this is probably what happened but it did put their expectations through the roof (and defer any marriage bells in our future).

To get onto my point....the Finish fellow has decided that his new wife will remain in Thailand and he will finish out his career in Europe and join her on retirement. Long distance relationships combined with the cross-cultural experience are high risk...but some of what this fellow is doing makes sense.

He may have totally upset the apple cart in the local Sin Sod market place in this small village with his astronomical Sin Sod but he is protecting his downside. I don't know what the marriage laws are in Europe, but in North America, once your new bride sets foot in the country the tables turn if a break-up occurs.

On top of having to guarantee to the Government that you wife will never collect on any social programs for up to 10 years (married or subsequently seperated) to get immigration status, I have never seen a marriage breakup in North America where the wife did not receive at least half and sometimes up to 90% of the combined assets. Once the lawyers are involved, those community property laws or that pre-nuptual agreement you were hanging you hat on may be worthless. In my jurisdiction 33% of first and 50% of 2nd and subsequent marriages end in divorce in 10 years or less.

Don't get me wrong, I am solidly in the group of guys who prefer not to live alone or play "butterfly", but don't just think about the Sin Sod if your fiance will be joining you in the West. Your real downside may not be the Sin Sod, but Western Family laws that simply won't recognize Eastern traditions.

Charley sounds like mahk mahk satang to me for a family from a tiny village maybe if they were a Hi-so family and living in the city could be differant, and to say they are not returning anything, have you known the GF and family a long time? just offer to pay what you think is right, and remember it won't stop there, and if it all go's wobberly well theres probably a lesson in there somewhere.

Finnish guy 60+ with a 20 year old rich,lucky,a fool, who knows !

Hmmm....this is all very diverting from the middle and tolerant view.

Just treat people as you expect to be treated.... in Thailand or elsewhere....I find the common human expectations easy to understand.... surely here....and its a rhetorical question.. I am not alone?

This is my opinion and opnion only. Say no to sin sod or they make it reasonable. Sure guys, you are marrying a Thai and sure you want to honor their customs. That does not say start an auction. I have read this thread several times. it seems some of the folks are in this for the long haul and some are in it for arm pretty.

You can do either and it is no concern of mine. If you are in this for the long haul, you sit down and figure out what can be done and you let the family know. IMHO if the wedding is called off because of this, it was money only.

There is an old saying a fool and his money is soon parted. Another is there is no greater fool than a man in loved.

Saying that and reading this thread only proves them true. Relax and back off. See what happens. This is a Buddaist country. Remember if things are meant to be they will.

Why my posts are deleted on this subject I have no idea
I try and contribute to this forum in an honest and sincere way.

Sin sot original was meant as a price for a "virginal bride"

I am not personally attacking anybody. I just find it embarrassing that farangs marry prostitutes and get into fights and lower the whole tone of Udon Thani.

I try and advise people that there are many wonderful Thai woman who would love to meet a sincere farang

Maybe I am just to old fashioned and this is the modern way

I still hold true to that Thais would never pay Sin Sot for a divorcee with two kids or a bargirl .

If anyone questions my integrity feel free to "PM" me before deletion

regards
TC

There again

Maybe I need to start a forum for people with old fashioned ideas and morals.
It would be boring of course
Just a bunch of silly old farts, one posting a month on pension day if we were lucky
maybe one or two youngsters you never know?

TC with a go faster Zimmer frame drinking half a bitter

Surely not more dissappering posts TC should be "supping"a half a bitter.
good luck with the forum for boring fa*ts, i could join as one of the youngsters

Charley said

My TG who lives in a tiny village near Nam Som (apx 100km NW of UT) has finally advised what the "conditions" will be for us to get married..before I go into that, she is 23yrs, high school ed, that's it - supposedly worked in a factory near BKK for 1 yr too..
Her parents work the usual potato/rice & buffalo farming. So she helps them out occasionally on the farm.

TC I agree I wouldn't want to pay a sin sot for a divorcee with 2 children, but that wasn't the scenario presented by Charley.

Charley is does sound to me like you are being taking advantage of. It would be a good test if you told them, that you can't possibly afford that, or that you would have to go away and work for 2 or 3 years to save it. Then see what the family do. AND as Beer Monkey rightly said, it doesn't stop there! Have you known this girl for very long?

What happened with me in an earlier life with a school teacher was that she told me her father wasn't bothered about a sin sot, but then her mother got talking to the neighbours and up popped a 100k sin sot, 2 baht of gold and no money to be returned. So there could be a strong influence on the family from friends and neighbours talking everything up. In the event things didn't proceed to a marriage, for other reasons.

I would suggest you put your foot on the ball, by saying, can't be done.

I have this hunch, based on NO scientific facts whatsoever, but a few personal and friends experiences that maybe the sin sot should equate to no more than approx 1 year's anticipated earnings of the bride! I find that's a good rule of thumb!

Businessman note the sin sot is not returned in all cases!!

Good Luck and tread slowly and very carefully, Charley.

This all makes very interesting reading for me as i am in the same type situation . whats asked is 200.000 cash approx 1000 pound uk gold and . me to pay for wedding . I have tried to take into account g/f s class .job . education etc but it still comes up as expensive so answer is a big no no. Well not quite , asked g/f to let me speak to father and see what could be arranged . I like father and cant believe I could not reach an aggreement with him . however g/f not want me to speak to father about it which sort of tickles a suspisious hair on my neck . G/f just say oh we wait untill you have money. point there being I do have the money and she knows it , Im just not going to spend it. So end result at present is that it is souring relationship a little. G/f sayig its ok we wait, whilst at same time saying its not good for her professional relationship and people are talking . (which is probably true.) I guess you guys have heard this all a thousand times .whats hard is actuely judging who is making it difficult or maybe who is after money . G/f parents are really nice ,father a real gentleman and to me anyway only seems concerned about daughters happiness . So is it he ,nother or in deed daughter wanting the dowry? Anyway Im sticking to keeping money in the bank and waiting and seeing .

It's obvious there are two factors coming into play. The first, the ability of the farang to pay.ie: If he has 10 million in the bank, then he is well able to give 10% of that to the girl of his choice. On the other hand, if he only has 1 million, then that is 100% of his total wealth. Is any girl worth making yourself a pauper for? The other factor is the quality of the lady. If she is well educated, from a good family, hasn't been putting herself around too much then obviously you will be very lucky and should be prepared to pay higher.
As I think TC commented before. If you only have Ford motors money, don't make yourself envious by looking in the Ferrari window.
Of course you may be lucky enough to find a bit older model, not too much mileage on the clock that nobody else wants, in the bargain basement

In this neck of the woods a farmer's daughter requires a show of between 30000 and 100000 Baht.If they do not hand out envelopes for donations from guests(the norm around here) then the reception gets taken out of the 100000 and the rest is returned next day.To not get the cash back AND pay for the wedding is unheard of.

Why my posts are deleted on this subject I have no idea
I try and contribute to this forum in an honest and sincere way.

I have no idea too!

Following on the subject on Sin sods...

I'm against the whole marriage idea full stop! I'm not religious, I hate being the centre of attention and IMHO it's all a waste of time and money. If my partner insisted that it was essential to become married then I would ask the family for a low key occasion, a few drinks and small party. Then later take a trip to the local amphur, sign the paper and take ourselves off for a nice holiday down south.

I guess 100,000 sounds pretty reasonable for a sin sod if the family pays for the party, food etc. After all they'll get their money back via invitation envelopes at the party. If the families needs extend to wanting buffalo or other extras then they're just milking the situation, time to reconsider the wedding plans.