Why are Thai girls so volatile?

Long distance relationships, mixed relationships etc...

Why are Thai girls so volatile?

PostAuthor: Ricky » May 15, 2007, 6:17 pm

I found this submission on Stickman very interesting:-

[I have highlighted some points which I felt particularly accurate]

The status of women in this very hierarchical society is undoubtedly low. Money is paid to a girl’s parents when she marries and her duty to her husband is to produce and raise children, to keep house, to produce and prepare food and to wait upon and pamper her man, while he most probably philanders with other women and drinks himself insensible.

A Thai wife may be expected to tolerate this situation in silence. She cannot negotiate or remonstrate with her man if she’s dissatisfied as there’s nothing for her to negotiate about. There’s no culture of husband and wife talking things through as equals. Her only option therefore, other than chopping off his chopper, a crime with a high incidence in Thailand, is to fly off the handle and make a big fuss from time to time.

At its extreme, this is a desperate step to take as it’s an admission of failure, a breach of the culture of compromise that so values harmony in personal relations. However, handled well, open conflict can be a useful tactic, a strategy that can produce results. If it proves particularly effective, it becomes habit-forming and patterns of volatile behaviour are established and taught down the generations of women.

While Thai men can be weak, much is expected of Thai women who have to learn to be strong and who, when needs be, sometimes express that strength through aggression. Modesty, passivity and subservience are a female ideal but especially in gritty rural societies, women probably learn the value of assertiveness from watching how their fathers behave. And if they’ve been beaten by Papa and they’ve seen it happen to Mama too, how can they learn more sensitive ways? Nobody has taught them to mediate a way through a potential conflict, so it seems a useful tactic to get their retaliation in first... to throw some verbal punches, just when farang Dave’s least expecting them.

If a farang’s perception of his Thai wife is that she’s moody, hot headed and unpredictable, perhaps it’s true, though maybe there are pressure points in the marriage that partially explain it. There are many tensions in Lek’s relationship with Dave, a relationship that’s rewarding but also is high risk. She has a long way to fall, and having flaunted her gold to the village, the loss of face will be traumatic when he walks out on her.

First, she has no control of the purse strings and so money can be a constant source of friction. She has an abiding fear of poverty, of slipping back to the time when she had to eat rice with salt, when Papa was always drunk and Mama always pregnant, when they were still in debt even though Papa had sold almost all his rice land, when her older brothers were not sending money home and when they then looked to her to leave home to sell herself however she could.

Her recent alliance with big, cuddly Dave is substantially an economic exchange. From the time he handed over the sinsot on their wedding day, the question of how they spend his money is an unavoidable and ever present issue. As there’s no common ground and nothing’s ever hammered out, the problem of money is a ripe source for conflict. One day somebody’s going to call him mean as sticky ****, and having built her a palatial house on her family’s land, Dave’s not going to be a happy bunny.

Then there’s the problem of language. Dave and Lek can’t understand each other properly, so things are always tense, tense, tense. There are twelve tenses in English. Present tense, but maybe future perfect... if Lek can learn enough English to communicate properly with Dave who’s never going to get beyond saying sawaddicup and cowpat ghai. Misunderstandings are endemic and so the tensions slowly accumulate.

There are many cultural differences that lead to friction as well. Dave walks into the house with his shoes on because he says the floor’s dirty. He tells her not to wash his clothes every five minutes and she calls him dirty. He can’t eat chili like the rest of the family, so she has to cook special dishes for him. And instead of politely picking his nose or spitting on the floor, he blows it with a tissue... shock horror! Farang nagliat!

Perhaps most difficult of all is that, because of the language problem, Lek is the exclusive interface between Dave and the rest of the Thai world. She has to mediate between her husband and her family’s expectations of him and inevitably she’ll offend one side or the other. No ambassador could have the diplomatic powers to deal with this intractable situation. <EXCELLENT point this, and one which I've never considered, nor read before - Stick>

Thus, as Dave’s interpreter and negotiator, she has to act as intermediary in all his petty disputes with traders and workmen and with the rest of the province. The painter’s smeared paint all over the woodwork of the doors, his satellite internet’s a disaster, the top of the table he bought has dried up and split, the noise from the neighbours’ sound system is deafening and somebody in the soi has eaten the cat and he’s very upset. Lek now has to deal with all these issues while Dave stands threateningly behind her, egging her on, pushing her, willing her to get the result he’s demanding.

But no, says Lek, mai pen rai. It’s not that important. The work’s acceptable and you can’t be that fussy. You’ve just got to swallow your anger and pay up. And the noisy neighbours. Graeng jai! You’ve got to be considerate to them and shut up even when they’re being inconsiderate to you. And you can always get another cat.

But Dave’s out for blood and he’s going to make her push, push, push until he gets full satisfaction from all of them. He’s a nice guy but this time it’s a matter of principle.

‘Cannot, Dave. You farang, you talk too much!’ she says loudly. Dave dares to answer back and then she explodes, a fearful sight to behold.

‘Dave, you farang... jai rorn, jing jing. You buffalo, no good, no good!’

And let’s face it, to be fair, sometimes Dave explodes too. Lek doesn’t have a monopoly on being explosive in this particular family.

Thus, stress and provocation can cause explosions, but sometimes they are primarily a tactic, a conscious form of manipulation. The more histrionic the explosion, the more effective it’ll be for getting Lek what she wants. Keeping Dave in fear of the next display of fireworks is a handy way of making him more compliant.

When a wife keeps changing her mind about small things all the time, flies into jealous rages, is petulant and moody and is a pain in the proverbial, it can be a bigger issue. Perhaps she has serious problems and is damaged goods. In so many poor families anywhere in the world, a child has to compete with her siblings, looking after the younger ones while Mama is pregnant or out in the rice fields and gets no parental attention herself. Papa is drunk and violent or has fled the scene, so there has been no role model to show her how to behave in a marriage. Nobody has taught her what behaviour is reasonable and what is unacceptable. She just copies the way her Mama used to scream at Papa.

And one last thing, if Lek worked in the bars, her life defined by her monthly tally of lady drinks and bar fines, who knows what experiences she might have had and what resentments she harbours against those responsible for them. Dave will never know about it as she’ll never tell him, nor can he ever discover how it now affects her behaviour towards him.

Marriage has never been easy and as between farang and Thai there are some massive incompatibilities. Nonetheless, getting to understand each other and to cope with the difficulties is part of the fun. Though as I said, I’ve little insight into these marital conflicts as my own Thai wife is always sweet and wonderful and never ever explodes!

Andrew Hicks
Surin

Stickman's thoughts:

Keeping someone in fear of the next outburst is pure manipulation and control, and any relationship with either of these factors is destined to fail. It is a tactic I see used very often here, and one which saddens me. And let's be straight about this, farangs are far from the only targets. It is just as common, if not more common, in relationships where both partners are Thai.

It really does come back to the same old issue. Thais and farangs are just oh so different.
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PostAuthor: Paul » May 15, 2007, 7:45 pm

I thought the article was interesting and valid.
I think stickman should shut up ! (again)
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PostAuthor: Frankie 1 » May 15, 2007, 7:49 pm

I think stickman should shut up !


I agree.
I think that emotional blackmail is never a "tactic", I think that people who behave like that are not aware of what they do, and don't behave like that on purpose.
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PostAuthor: BKKSTAN » May 15, 2007, 8:31 pm

I agree also,generally speaking,although there are probably a few on the hustle that have learned how to manipulate in many ways including emotional blackmail!
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PostAuthor: Ricky » May 15, 2007, 8:55 pm

The bit that I thought that was particularly valid was, about them frequently having to act not only as an interpreter, but also as a negotiator, intermediary etc., often in a variety of contentious situations.

I can remember a previous GF having to communicate, explain, translate and negotiate various matters relating to the construction of a kitchen. She got very stressed out by it all. :mad:
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PostAuthor: tawan3 » May 16, 2007, 5:21 am

I think it is complete fiction unless your relationships are with people in a mental ward. I think he must be working on a novel. :lol:
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PostAuthor: BKKSTAN » May 16, 2007, 10:12 am

tawan3 wrote:I think it is complete fiction unless your relationships are with people in a mental ward. I think he must be working on a novel. :lol:
:shock: I don't think you have much experience with falang/Thai relationships in Thailand!

Falang are generally more confrontational than Thais and the expectations that our Thai partner needs to interprete our every need and want as we get frustrated because WE can't communicate is the more pressure than anyone should have to bear :(
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PostAuthor: Ricky » May 16, 2007, 10:36 am

Yes, I agree with Stan. I thought it was very "spot on". :D

I have also seen evidence of the "fear of her next outburst" tactic, and "emotional blackmail" tactics. Though agreed that particular individual should have been in a "Mental Ward"! :lol:
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PostAuthor: tawan3 » May 16, 2007, 10:51 am

I did not say you could not learn anything from fiction. I have read a few of stickman's posting. I still say complete fiction but entertaining.

Did stickman suddenly invent a time machine? This is 2007. I can write the same things about America there are still outhouses behind houses here and this state is one of the original 13 colonies but it is not the norm.

I can write fictional but entertaining accounts of myself communicating with the rednecks and crack-heads here but in reality I do not live with them or marry them I stay away from them. The point is no one in their right mind marries someone that they can not communicate with girlfriend/boyfriend yes but not spouse.
IMHO :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostAuthor: BKKSTAN » May 16, 2007, 11:10 am

tawan,maybe with alittle more ''Thai time'' experience ,you might change your mind! :lol:
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PostAuthor: tawan3 » May 16, 2007, 11:11 am

Stickman's type of entertaining fiction is also why People always asks me did I ride an elephant to school every morning? I have to carry a globe around to prove Thailand is not in Mexico and I am not Mexican! Americans are educated people but not International. This forum is the best because everyone on it has International experience and can discuss topics no one else would understand and benefits our community tremendously ah wrong spell :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostAuthor: tawan3 » May 16, 2007, 11:27 am

I reserve the right to change my opinion as I learn more. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostAuthor: Ricky » May 16, 2007, 11:38 am

Tawan wrote:Stickman's type of entertaining fiction is also why People always asks me did I ride an elephant to school every morning?

Tawan, Stickman's submissions are not fiction. Ok, possibly one or two may be, and a few may have been exaggerated or embroidered upon, but in the main they are about, and are consistent with, real situations and experiences over here.

Also, I guess not everyone will share the same conclusions or viewpoints on some of the points made.
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PostAuthor: tawan3 » May 16, 2007, 11:46 am

OK I should have used creative literary licenses instead of fiction too lazy to check the dictionary. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Why are Thai girls moody? I do not know. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostAuthor: Roadman » May 16, 2007, 3:58 pm

About the only thing I can relate to in all of that is the interpreter needs, more so for me in Thailand for just about everything, but having a good English speaking wife I only act as a partial interpter for her among professional people here in NZ.
The rest of it I relate equally to western women as I do to Thai's.

Where I have trouble with this article and just about all others that discuss thai women and relationships is most use the generic term of thai women and start on with descriptions of them that are more a rarity than the norm in my experiences. Hence I am just about always in disagreement with most westerners in their assessments of thai women and their families.
However at least this article does eventually get it right by describing more accruately the discussion target - thai village girls and bargirls. But here again there may be a general assumption with a lot of westerners in that village girls and bar girls are one and the same when they are not. There are plenty of poor thai girls who make an honest living however I digress.
Our (my wife and I) socialising circle comprise mostly thai/farang marriages - a mix of village and middle class thai wifes. All the characteristics that are described here (emotional blackmail, papa beatings etc.) as being possibly the norm I rarely experience within those circles, and also within my full family circle when in Thailand. What I do see is generally marital skills from these thai women that are the equal of their western counterparts.
Where I have experienced all the garbage most is in the poor working class western environment that I was fortunate to be able to escape from. I am not saying it does not exist on a large scale in Thailand as there is a larger poor working class for it to florish in than western environments. But by the same comparison it is less of an issue in thai middle class as it is in western middle classes. And by the same token yes some of the middle class one feels should be committed to the funny farm at times. The problem is not a thai issue but a socio-economic one.
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