Will mowing the lawn get me into trouble?

I am retired and living in Thailand on a non-immigrant O visa. My visa clearly states that employment is prohibited, which I am quite happy with since I never intend to work here.

Some of my friends, however, tell me that I am not even permitted to carry out minor jobs, such as cutting my own grass, gardening, house cleaning and so on. Can you please define the term “employment” as used by Thai Immigration because I understand it to mean any work carried out for financial reward.
Ray Brown, Krabi. Tuesday, June 24, 2008

“The retirement visa prohibiting employment means that you cannot do any kind of work “for anyone else” even if you don’t receive pay or any other reward for it.http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesansw ... sp?id=1038

For example, you cannot be a writer who sends your stories to publish in journals or newspapers, even if you don’t get paid, or work as a volunteer translating documents free of charge.

However, this doesn’t mean that you cannot do work for your daily life at your home. You are still able to clean the dishes, cut grass, cook or whatever in your home, just as anyone does in their normal daily lives.”
Tuesday, June 24, 2008 Janya Yingyong, an officer at the Phuket Provincial Employment Office Work Permit Section.

I wouldn't go to the bank on that!When I lived in Bangkok,I knew a Brit that was doing yard work and painting his fence!He got a stern warning only after paying a 2000 baht donation!He was told a neighbor complained!

The problem,I think,is that the law(rules)don't specify what you can do!So you find yourself at the ''mercy''of the authorities and the system that does not and will not serve expats living here!

I believe it depends on where you live and the governors/mayor/Phu Yai's attitude about expats.In Nong Khai,they have a favorable attitude towards expats and I have never heard of them bothering one even when they are doing building/remodeling work on their own!

yes, these things will get you in big trouble:

mowing the lawn, the worst

cleaning your own house, very sad

washing and god forbid, servicing your own vehicle/motorbike, probably just a used motorbike...............................why.

because you are so damn poor, you can't afford to pay a local guy/gal to do it for you. how can you walk around town with your head up. cheap charlie, jon, poor farang, so damn sad..............all face with family and village is lost, not going to pay relative not to cut grass, well, they will eventually get around to it, maybe next time. don't forget the beer afterwards.

that is the true image of poverty, a farang doing their own chores, you make us all look bad.

actually, it's the only excersice i get, takes me over an hour for 1/2 rai cut. i'm a lazy ****. but got a nice tan. can't wait till rainy season is over, then it's my next joy of living, pressure wash fungus, just lovely. that's why i have big wall around house, so not going to jail.

You are quite entitled to carry out normal household and gardening chores, without compromising your Retirement Visa - Employment prohibited regulations!

This question was recently raised in the Phuket Gazette and answered by the Immigration Dept, and common sense did prevail:-

http://www.phuketgazette.com/issuesansw ... sp?id=1038

I quote:-

Will mowing the lawn get me into trouble?

I am retired and living in Thailand on a non-immigrant O visa. My visa clearly states that employment is prohibited, which I am quite happy with since I never intend to work here.

Some of my friends, however, tell me that I am not even permitted to carry out minor jobs, such as cutting my own grass, gardening, house cleaning and so on. Can you please define the term “employment” as used by Thai Immigration because I understand it to mean any work carried out for financial reward.
Ray Brown, Krabi. Tuesday, June 24, 2008

“The retirement visa prohibiting employment means that you cannot do any kind of work “for anyone else” even if you don’t receive pay or any other reward for it.

For example, you cannot be a writer who sends your stories to publish in journals or newspapers, even if you don’t get paid, or work as a volunteer translating documents free of charge.

However, this doesn’t mean that you cannot do work for your daily life at your home. You are still able to clean the dishes, cut grass, cook or whatever in your home, just as anyone does in their normal daily lives.”
Tuesday, June 24, 2008 Janya Yingyong, an officer at the Phuket Provincial Employment Office Work Permit Section.

Note reference to not doing work for anyone else.

Err, sorry I seem to have repeated the OP's original point. I should have read from the beginning a little more thoroughly. I was drawn into responding to the the more immediately preceeding posts!!:oops:

However, I think the point is well made and well defined. No problems doing your own household chores, cutting the grass or even drilling the odd hole for yourself.

This sh1t really pees me off! Cant do this cant do that!What kind of people are they here!!
LOS? I only when it suits them!All this crap is thrown at us everytime.
Accident? farang pay! Visa? farang pay(mahk mahk!) two tear system? farang pay!
ARE WE FARANGS WELCOME HERE? NOOOOOOO!
The only welcome we have is whats in our wallet!
SMILE? thats not a smile.Thats a smirk!
If I was that farang "CAUGHT" painting his fence,I would say FU! Not pay one baht!
send me to jail.
Can you imagine the image Thailand will show?
In the newspaper,"FARANG jailed FOR PAINTING HIS FENCE!"
I just wish I could go back years ago.I would never had come to Thailand!
But b4 someone says, "If you dont like It here f... off back to your own country",
I spent all my money here buying a house that would never be mine, took care a Thai wife and family.So I cant afford to start again.
Thailand was not too bad" tears" ago.Now ....Well all know!
It is now, one has to be careful! You are not even allowed to speak your opinion!
I am even worry now I might get deported for saying my view!
However,I have a lovely partner makes me happy everyday.
So I stay indoors most of the time.That way cant get ripped off by the authorities!
Except with the Visa of course!

This is from the Royal Thai Consulate in Hull

http://www.thaiconsul-uk.com/pdfs/Aa%20 ... ations.pdf

Entitlements of a Non im "O" type Visa

Category

why not just buy a goat , or 2 they will keep your lawn down, and anything else they take a fancy to.

The real problem here is that laws and rules are not clearly defined and that each person of authority seems to be able to do or say what they want.Their coworkers or supervisors very seldom go against their actions because of ''face''!

The opportunity for corrupt actions is there also!

It is fine to say that,you would tell them to take you to jail,but the facts are that everything you have feels in jeopardy,you are never sure of where you stand legally and then anything can happen with your case while waiting ,or in judgement.Then you get to deal with those authorities that you have opposed in your bid for justice!

To buck a system that you have no power over is really idiotic!The only power we ''guests'' have is knowledge of how things work,avoiding the problems in every possible way and going with the flow if necessary!Save your ego for disagreements with other ''guests'' if necessary!Better than that,practice controlling it!

Hi,
House next door had a break in, owner only lives there on school holidays as he has a bussness elsewhere in Thailand. when the Police came I was painting the outside wall. They came up to me and asked me did i hear anything last night, not one question about painting the wall, I think this is a lot of scaremongering.
You will be saying next it is against the visa regs. to shower yourself and clean your teeth, drive a car or bike to take your kids to school or take your wife-GF shopping.
I showed this to Thai wife and she laughed and said crazy farrangs.
Cheers Doug.

The real issue is that they do not have to take you to jail, they do not have to give you a trial with a chance to defend yourself. The only thing that they need to do is cancel your visa, stamp your passport as an undesirable in Thailand & escort you to the airport. Anyone that thinks they can win a battle of wills with a Thai person in authority is deluding themselves.

Doug I agree with what you say, but it isn't "crazy Falang" if you upset someone in authority. Thailand is a prime example of people turning a blind eye to what is legally allowed unless they deem it necessary....

saint wrote:why not just buy a goat , or 2 they will keep your lawn down, and anything else they take a fancy to

Just be careful you don't get caught milking it though!!

Sorry, just kidding!!

Nobody is scaremongering,we are talking about reality!Nobody said that working w/o a permit or with a retirement visa will get you in trouble everywhere in Thailand!But if you have not been around long enough to see or know somebody that has been ''jammed'' for doing it,Stick around long enough and you will!

Personally I am sharing my factual experiences and my opinions about living here,if you choose to reject them,good luck!

Hi Stan,
Lived in Thailand quite a few years now, I have not seen anyone pulled up for keeping his garden tidy, ie. mowing the lawn pruning trees etc. If you can tell me of somebody who has i would like to know.
Cheers Doug.

douglas wrote:Hi Stan,
Lived in Thailand quite a few years now, I have not seen anyone pulled up for keeping his garden tidy, ie. mowing the lawn pruning trees etc. If you can tell me of somebody who has i would like to know.
Cheers Doug.

PostPosted: June 27, 2008, 1:19 pm
I wouldn't go to the bank on that!When I lived in Bangkok,I knew a Brit that was doing yard work and painting his fence!He got a stern warning only after paying a 2000 baht donation!He was told a neighbor complained!

This was 2001.My point is that it happens ,as it did in BK then,not that it happens everywhere or all the time.Knowledge of you living environment is helpful.I doubt that it would happen in Udon or NK!I lived in a condo in BK and he was in his house on my Soi.I definitely would not have copied his actions after his experience ,if I had owned a house there!

I don't know if he was ''legal'' or not,but that doesn't always make a difference for us,does it?

A further development from the can I cut my own grass question, - to which the official answer was YES, and rightly so.

It's now can I help my wife make the pudding (that she then goes out and sells). Logically the answer has to be "no" - because he is helping her with her business, but who knows what goes on behind closed doors??!!

So a quote again from the Phuket Gazette:

Can I help with the pudding?

Recently, Ray Brown asked if mowing the lawn would get him in trouble for working without a work permit (click here for previous Issue & Answer).

Janya Yingyong replied that, as long as he is not working for someone else, everything is fine.

Does this mean that I am forbidden from getting up early in the morning to help my Thai wife prepare her coconut pudding? She sells coconut pudding and fried quail eggs from a motorbike side-cart.
Ian Knowles, Thalang. Wednesday, July 2, 2008

“If you are working to prepare things for your wife to sell, you are considered to be working to earn money.

Even though you do not receive the money directly, you do benefit through your wife, which is technically prohibited if you hold a retirement visa.

Officially, you should have a non-immigrant O visa and apply for a work permit to work for your wife. If you did this, your wife would need to be operating a registered business.”
Wednesday, July 2, 2008 Janya Yingyong, of the Phuket Provincial Employment Office’s Work Permit Section.